About to take the plunge -- need some advice

There are definitely a lot of enthusiastic and knowledgeable contributors to this site and a lot of great information to get newbies like me up to speed on what to look out for. I recently found a 2007 F430 Spider at a local Ferrari dealership in SoCal and have been working with the salesman to get up to speed. After about a week of exchanging E-mails, he suggested that I speak with the mechanic who had done the inspection on the vehicle. What I learned was the following:

1) Mechanic did not have records of the car having the annual service performed at their location or their sister store (both in SoCal). However, the car had been in their shop a few times for work on mirrors, paint flaking, a battery replacement, as well as rear deck lid scratch and touch-up related to mis-alignment of the roofing mechanism. The salesperson initially represented the car had been serviced at there shop every year but one – may just be mis-communication or may be mis-information, but certainly something that I will follow up on.

2) Salesperson indicated the car would have an annual service done prior to sale.

3) Mechanic did not have a view on whether the car has had any accidents or not. He indicated that they were not a body shop, but could have the vehicle reviewed by one in the area.

4) Mechanic did not have record of exhaust manifolds being replaced (likely because the car only has 3,000 miles). However, he indicated that replacement is covered under a 7 year / 70K miles emissions warranty (I guess I would have two years remaining).

5) If I wanted the one-year Power Normal Warranty, they would do another CPO with compression test/leak-down test as required. Car had a CPO in Sept., 2011, but that is not recent enough for the warranty. As part of the new CPO, he offered to put the car on a lift and walk me through the vehicle.

6) Clutchwear is 13.95% as measured by SD3 after 3,000 miles

7) Brakes – 85% remains for both front and rear.

8) Tires are original. They have about 65 – 70% of the remaining life on them.

9) Battery was replaced last month (also in May 2011)

My thoughts were to proceed with the purchase and ask for a 1 year Power Normal Warranty to be included (cost is $3,850). This should cover any of the big ticket items that might occur (engine, gearbox, F1 actuator and ECUs), and would require a new CPO with compression/leak-down test. I expect to drive the car 5K – 6K miles per year, which is twice as much as it’s ever been driven, so some things are bound to come up during the first year of driving. I thought that the warranty would provide some peace of mind and at least cover the most costly potential repairs.

Does anyone see any red flags here or reasons not to proceed (notably – items 1, 3 and 4)? Is there anything I forgot to ask or need to include as part of the purchase? If I have the one year Power Normal Warranty, does anyone feel strongly that I would still need to get an independent PPI anyway or does that give me enough protection?

I would love to take the plunge this weekend, but don’t want to blow myself up. Any thoughts would be very much appreciated. Thanks again for all of your thoughts and comments so far. They have been extremely helpful in getting me up the learning curve.

 

Greetings Rockman!

If the servicing was done at the dealership in question they should be able to produce the evidence I would have thought. Indeed, if the servicing was done at any F dealer I would have thought the records would be accessible. Some people are really quite anal about records and so it would be nice to have them for future re-sale (assuming it was done at all) but personally I wouldn't regard it as a deal breaker.

Given the value of the investment you're contemplating I would definitely get the PPI done by an independent third party. I don't like the fact that they aren't prepared to give you an unconditional statement as regards lack of accident in the history and I feel that needs to be independently verified (quite apart from the mechanical order of the car).

Given the relatively low mileage, indicating the car hasn't been in regular use, I'd recommend the additional warranty. Cars that havent been used much and are then subjected to more regular (perhaps more enthusiastic and spirited) use can often produce a few "shake out" problems so I think the additional warranty would be good to have in your first year of ownership.

As regards the "annual" they propose I'd request, in case they don't regard it as included, that the coolant and gear oil be replaced.

The tyres may have plenty of thread but will be well past their best and I would strongly recommend that you replace with new Bridgestone Re11s or Michelin Pilot Super Sports. You will need maximum adhesion while you get used to the car and it would be a shame to bin it due to somewhat hardened rubber.

Best of luck. The 430 is a fabulous car.

 

The only thing that stands out to me is I don't like convertible tops with histories of issues....they tend to remain problems. Make sure you understand what the problem was, and how they fixed it.

 

Rockman

Has the dealer changed his mind and will now allow an independent PPI?

 

I think it's reasonable to assume no major accident if it passed a full CPO and they are going to sell a Power warranty. However it could have had minor accidents that you may never know about. Ferrari NB has a body shop by the way. NB told me upfront that they do not consider minor accidents and repaints to be significant.

The discrepancy about the service is annoying. It was bound to be discovered on inspection, so probably a honest mistake. Not sure what to make of service history without records - I would just as well assume no service has been done, but given the miles probably reasonable to get a fresh service and start over.

 

I find it odd that a Ferrari dealership is not able to attain detailed service records, especially when done there. Even if you get the Power Normal Warranty, it sounds like the minor issues such as the paint, mirrors and convertible mechanism may come back to bite you.
I'd make sure those were fixed and history attained especially on the roof.
If the car isn't clean and sorted...move to the next.
There are many out there to choose from.

 

I've seen a CPO car that had prior damage repaired. Not sure I'd call it major or minor or something else though...i just wanted to be clear here that attaining CPO (e.g. passing the inspection) does not require that the car be free of any prior repaired damage.

 

OP - are the brakes CCM or steel (I'm guessing steel based on the 15% wear in only 3k miles)?

Re the Indy PPI, have them run a paint meter and check for accident repair damage. They can usually tell one way or the other if that is a concern of yours.

Also, as mentioned above, I too strongly suggest all new fluids and filters (all meaning all) and tires given the limited miles on the car at age 5.

Sounds like posters are unclear on what you are saying about prior maint services. To me, I read that the dealer has no records of any such service. So, it could have been done at an Indy or not at all. You may never know one way or the other. If the compression test and leakdown are clean and if you get a Power Normal warranty as you mentioned, and you get a complete annual with all fluids changed and tires...I guess that's as good as you will get. Fwiw, i would not pay top dollar for a car with zero proof of historical maint. I have no idea what you are paying and am not implying that you are, I'm just saying...

Good luck. Let us know what transpires.

 

As always – a lot of great thoughts and feedback here. I really appreciate it. Didn’t realize what an involved process this would be – probably spending more time on this than the last house that I bought. But certainly learning a ton in the process.

With regard to the maintenance, the salesperson initially told me that the car had been purchased at their dealership, had two owners and had every annual maintenance done at their shop but one. When I spoke with the mechanic yesterday, he seemed very straightforward in all his answers. The very first question I asked him was to walk through the service history of the vehicle. He checked their records online and he did not find any records of annual service. He then checked their sister store and did not find any history of annual service. The only things he found was the repairs that I mentioned earlier. So from this I would conclude that the vehicle has either been serviced independently for the last five years or has not been serviced at all. Again, could be a point of mis-communication, and I will certainly follow up with the salesperson, but it was not what I expected to hear given the salesperson’s initial representation.

With regards to other questions -- Haven’t asked for an independent PPI yet. Was hoping everything would check out exactly as described and would just get the warranty. Brakes are steel (not CCB). Roofing is a concern, as I know those mechanisms can be expensive to replace and a history of misalignment doesn’t sound good, especially as it isn’t covered under the warranty. And yes, given the age of the vehicle, sounds like new tires and a fresh annual are in order if I go ahead.

So, while not hearing any “red flags” here, I am not exactly getting a glowing green light to proceed either. Will send a note back to the salesperson today to follow up on these issues. While the car does have nearly all of the colors/options that I would like, from what I’ve seen online, I don’t think it’s a particularly rare combination, so I’m not afraid of moving on to the next vehicle if that’s what it comes to. Might even be a better learning process if I work with a couple of dealers and see how things are represented at different shops.

Thanks again to everyone.

 

The car has 3000 miles. How mush service would it need? Don't over think it. In regards to accidents, I guarantee the dealership has a paint meter and if they are reputable and honest you can use it and test each panel. If there is no evidence of an accident and you get the cpo included then I see no reason why this car wouldn't work. Good luck.

 

My experience with Ferrari NB has been that they are upfront about the possibility of selling a car with prior repaint and crash damage. They told me multiple times that they do not feel cosmetic damage detracts from the car and they do not look for or declare such damage - of course until it comes time to trade in when they will give you nothing because of prior damage. Supposedly CPO should pick up on frame damage or other major damage.

How about having someone from a body shop or with paint meter check the car for damage?

 

The advantage of negotiating with a factory dealership is that they must be able to produce complete records of the car in their showroom, no excuses. If the provided records do not show a fixed campaign or year service, then I assume it has not happened.
On the other hand, they could make a decision not to show a specific event and claim ignorance. Dishonesty is the worst quality of a Dealership.

Every dealership (as in any field ) has good, bad and incompetent staff. Before contacting a place I try to find who the perceived honest/trustworthy individuals are so I can trust their intentions. It's one of the advantages of this type of forum.

Trust your instincts. If it doesn't feel right, Walk!! Good luck in your search.

 

Made the mistake of taking a test drive today.

First time I've ever driven a Ferrari. Unbelievable. . .

Concerns about meticulously assembled service records seem to have been alleviated.

 

Good Luck, I hope all is fine and works out as expected for you.

Ferrari cars are awesome!!!!!!!

Enjoy it

 

Ran a Carfax check on the car last night. Seems to support what the dealer had indicated. Two owners, no major crashes. Has been serviced once at another dealer. He also indicated that they run an NIDC report as an additional measure, though my understanding is that both of these only pick up on claims filed with an insurance company or police reports. So smaller damage could go unreported if a claim was not filed.

Only things I saw were that owner number 2 was listed as "Lease" for type of ownership. Have seen some chatter about concerns regarding leased vehicles, though not sure why that should be a problem. Guy drove it for 2,300 miles in 2 1/2 years.

Other item was that the car failed the emissions test on 9/22/11 when the current dealer purchased the car. It passed the emissions test the next day.

It did seem a little strange that the car has not moved through the current dealer's inventory in 6 months. It's a pretty standard red / tan '07 Spider. Would have thought that it should turn over pretty fast.

Anything here to be concerned about?

Otherwise, think of making an offer today.

Thanks again to everyone for your help.

 

Get the warranty and buy it. Make sure to run the top a couple of times. Post pics next week.

 

You've caught the "bug" and you're infected with F-Fever ... it's hopeless to fight it ... GOOD LUCK and ENJOY!

 

I actually bought the car yesterday. Pretty exciting!!!

Deal included a One Year Power Normal plus an annual service. They also agreed to provide copies of all documentation available (original sticker, service/repair records, etc.)

Going to take a couple days to get everything in order, but should have it for this upcoming weekend. Hopefully the weather will be nice.

Thanks again to everyone for all the great advice and thoughts.

Willl post some pics once everything is finalized.

 

Good for you! Now, you have that warranty to back you up for a year.

My advice: Go out and drive that thing!!!

 

Well done. And with warranty in hand you can put miles on car and ensure car is sorted before expiration. Just let go of any concerns you had during the diligence phase. It's all good and time to enjoy the car. Congrats.

 

Beautiful car and looked brand new to me and essentially is brand new since it has less than break in miles.

 

Awesome. Congrats and enjoy. Drive the heck out of it!