Acceptable CCM wear on a 10k miles scuderia?

Difficult to say. 10K miles on the freeway is much different than 10K miles in "stop and go" traffic. So let's say the guy used his brakes more than average. What exactly does that mean? If I had CCM brakes, I'd be trying to put all of my friends' faces through the windshield just to show off.

 

As I understand it, the CCM reading is a number of heat cycles and only registers a reading at a certain temp? (at least that is what I was told on my CS)

32% used up in 10,000 miles is more than par for the course from all of the CS and Scuds I've looked at over the past couple of years. AFAIK the only way to get more heat cycles out of a given number of miles is to track the car (theory being that its pretty darn hard to get the brakes up to temp on the road regardless of how used). So, as you say in your post, the car saw some track time. I'd guess a bit of track time to use up a third of the brakes in 10k. PM F430GT, he might have some comparables on rotor usage on the track.

 

I can get to 100% wear rate in less than 1,000 miles.

It is about g-forces and the stupid algorithm they wrote for wear. The algorithm that calculates life left on CCM rotors is entirely wrong.

1) Brake bias is different front and rear in the F430 and 360 series, so the front rotors wear twice as fast.

2) Brake pad selection causes different wear rates

3) Weather creates different wear rates.

The actual wear is measured by taking each rotor out, inspecting for any damage, then measure the weight. The rotors come printed with original weight, and minimum weight, typically the numbers are 100 grams apart. Then prorate actual weight, using original weight at 100% life and minimum weight at 0% life (used-up), and you can easily determine the life left on the rotors.

CCM rotors have come down drastically on prices, and Taurino Racing and a few suppliers have options to rebuild them, re-using the center hats, and replacing the rotors.

 

Great first hand info as always...much appreciated.

Very good news to hear about more options and prices coming down from the $36,000 I was quoted last time I checked with a couple of dealers...what prices have you seen lately?

Also, do you leave the CCM's in your car for all the track time or have you switched to steel?


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430GT gave the most important info.

I have a 2009 Scudi too and at the moment around 12tkm on the clock.
2 weeks ago I read datas with SD3.
Clutch: 10%
Brake front: 38%
Brakte rear: 38%
That include 1200km on racetrack and I am using RS19/29 pads.

After read out I took all four rotors off, removed all dust, cleaned air ducts and holes. Then I put rotors on a high precision scale:
Front:
new weight (printed value): 6290g
min weight (printed value): 6190g
actual weight: 6306g !!!!!
Thickness new: 36mm
Thickness min: 35,5mm
Thickness actual: 36,01mm

Rear:
new weight (printed value): 4476g
min weight (printed value): 4421g
actual weight: 4495g !!!!!
Thickness new: 34mm
Thickness min: 33,5mm
Thickness actual: 33,97mm

I did not believe in those weights so I went to a friends laboratory. I checked weight of rotors again on their laboratory scales but values were nearly the same.

Forget SD3 read out!

 

Yes, switch to steel brake with SD3.
Concerning my experience & infos optical inspection of rotors and pads are the most important things. After each racetrack event I am doing that.

 

Extremely interesting thread!

 

Last year, when my car became 3 years old, I switched to steel brakes.

At one point I got the "BRAKE SERVICE" Yellow warning permanently on the dashboard.

There are two options to remove the warning:

1) Ferrari dealer can reset it to 100%, upon installation of new rotors
2) Via SD3, the 360 and F430 can be set to Steel brakes, and the CCM wear accumulator index gets disabled.

I got mine reset via option 1, because a dealer cannot disable it via option 2 (liabilities, FNA policies, etc). However, I did not go with new CCM rotors, my car was already on steel brakes.

I went back to CCM rotors 3 months ago, and ran at the track on them last weekend, and I like them a lot. My car is using custom brake cooling ducts, they worked well with the steel rotors, but I wanted to test these cooling ducts with the CCM rotors, and I'm pretty happy with the performance. No brake fade, on a hot and humid day Florida day.

 

I just found the following articles on carbon rotor "wear" and temperature control that might be of interest. Although on a GT-R board, the first article is partly in reference to Scud brakes. I'm assuming that because a guy from AP is praising a Stillen product that the product is actually made by AP. Regardless, it's interesting to me that the Stillen product appears to have a more benign "wear mechanism" than our "2D" rotors. If only there were an equivalent kit for F-cars....

Which one is better for road & track? - Brakes - GT-R Life (post 15)

http://www.apracing.com/Info.aspx?InfoID=51&ProductID=979

http://www.apracing.com/drawings/CP2872_1000CD.pdf

(the last is a drawing that contains some useful information air ducting, etc.)

 

Stillen, Movit,....whatever the name is. They are available for Scuderia but I did not find any real feedback from a racetrack driver.
Are those discs really better?
How much costs a rebuild?
I can read only reports of dealers and/or producers of those rotors. That is no neutral info for me!
One iron disc producer (USA) told me that Stillen/Movit have the same problems than CCM.-rotors. That is also no neutral report ;-)

So, does anyone know some guys who track their car with those rotors?

 

CWWHK races cars and he's posted about it before:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/tracking-driver-education/267923-carbon-ceramic-brakes-track.html

 

Thanks, I am familiar with that posts but there is no real information about wear of MOVIT ceramic rotors.

 

Where have you seen them? Could you provide a link? Thanks.

 

I got quotation direct from MOV'IT.
Here the contact:
Mr. Hussien Chahrour
Tel. +49/ 72 23 / 281-65 202
[email protected]

For 430 Scuderia:
Front rotor 398x36mm pp.: 3395,- Euro
Rear rotor 350x34mm pp.: 3045,- Euro
Price excl. VAT

That´s for the whole Scudi 15327,2 Euro incl. 19% VAT

 

Thanks for the intel F430GT! $6,500ish (with pads I think...if I found that correctly) sounds pretty reasonable considering the price of replacement CCM rotors from Ferrari. That kinda makes me think I will leave the CCMs on even if I do a bunch of track days and hit up Taurino when they need replacing.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/challenge-cars/388198-challenge-brake-options-steel-carbons.html

 

I track my cars with CFRC rotors. I have a set for my Scud. See photos in Project Scuderia thread in this forum. These rotors do not have the same problems that CCM and PCCB rotors have. I have been tracking the same set of rotors for 4 years on multiple cars. They are not even close to wearing out.

 

I see those in http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142177204-post171.html

Who is the manufacturer?