Ack! My 348 is peepeeing (just a little) | FerrariChat
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Ack! My 348 is peepeeing (just a little)

Discussion in '348/355' started by Chupacabra, Nov 21, 2011.

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  1. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra F1 Rookie
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    #1 Chupacabra, Nov 21, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hey gang,

    I discovered these few small leaks under the pumpkin today. The largest pool looks to be gear oil, though it really doesn't smell terrible. It has a sort of amber-ish hue, but I'm marginally colorblind so that may not help, either. The smaller pools looked a little more grey on the floor, but in the pic they all appear similar. Unfortunately, I really am unreliable when it comes to discerning shades...

    Anyway, I'm sure there is no way to know for certain until I take the pumpkin off, but what do you guys think? Triple seals? Clutch fluid? Both?
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  2. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 ernie, Nov 21, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2011
    My guesses are

    1) Triple seals

    and, or

    2) Thrust/throw out bearing seals
     
  3. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra F1 Rookie
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    #3 Chupacabra, Nov 21, 2011
    Thanks, Ernie. Guess I'll take her apart this weekend!
     
  4. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #4 ernie, Nov 21, 2011
    Take plenty of pics while your at it, and post them up for the brothers.
     
  5. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #5 AceMaster, Nov 21, 2011
  6. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 ernie, Nov 22, 2011
  7. Chupacabra

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    #7 Chupacabra, Nov 22, 2011
    Yeah, it doesn't seem to smell at all. Thanks for the thread, looks like your leak was a little more substantial, but I'm sure this one has potential :)

    Hopefully, I'll get to it this weekend and see what the diagnosis is. I'll get some pics!
     
  8. gus355

    gus355 Formula Junior

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    #8 gus355, Nov 22, 2011
    Also an easy way to tell is that clutch/brake fluid is water soluble so test it out.
     
  9. Chupacabra

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    #9 Chupacabra, Nov 22, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
    Ah! Will do, thanks!

    K, I went and checked -- the fluid is definitely coming from the slatted inspection cover (unless it is running and collecting there from an exterior leak, but everything topside looks fine), and it has no odor whatsoever. I also put some on my finger and, aside from some grease that was hanging out under the pumpkin, it washed right off with just water. Seems much less viscous than gear oil. Ergo, looks like it is definitely clutch/brake fluid. So, I guess the most likely culprits are the T/O bearing gaskets?
     
  10. PAP 348

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    #10 PAP 348, Nov 22, 2011
    Lucky it's an easy fix, looking forward to seeing pics. :):)
     
  11. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #11 AceMaster, Nov 22, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
    Just paying my debt back to the Brotherhood :):)

    No smell, I am 99.9% certain that it is the brake/clutch fluid then.

    If your clutch still feels perfectly normal, then I am guessing you have the same problem I had, which was simply one bad seal....but as you can see from my thread I replaced all the seals while I had the clutch apart.

    Very easy fix, you can have that clutch apart in less than one hour....take your time, take pics as you go, organize all the nuts and bolts, make notes....if I can do it, anyone can ;)
     
  12. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
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    #12 Ingenere, Nov 22, 2011
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    Experience with 82589 to the rescue!

    If I remember correctly, the old girl would drip some clutch fluid as the weather got colder. The rubber O Rings behind the throw out bearing shrink from the cold and leak. It is coming from the master cylinder.

    Generally when the weather warms up, it stops. I can't remember the last time I replaced the rings, so it just may be time for a little TLC. It is a relatively easy job. The toughest part is realigning the clutch, when putting it back on. You will have to drop the Tubi, but it is easy and very light. Once the bolts are removed from the clutch housing, rock it from side to side as you pull and it will slide off.

    It is all mainly time, I think the last time I did that job, the O rings were .25 cents.

    Give me a call, if you need some help. Say hi to the old girl for me! :)
     
  13. Chupacabra

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    #13 Chupacabra, Nov 22, 2011
    Ah, no substitue for intimate knowledge! :)

    You know, in the back of my head I was wondering if the climate may have something to do with it. It has been VERY up and down around here, going from high 40's during the day to near 80 yesterday, back down some for this weekend. Messy temperatures :)

    I think once I get around to taking it off, I'll just go ahead and replace everything. Discs and flywheel resurfaced (if at all needed), T/O bearing, seals...why not?

    One thing - those of you who have fitted the Hill Engineering Thrust bearing - is that just the 355 bearing, but with an upgraded flange required? I didn't see a 348-specific unit.

    Dino, she says hi back, and she wanted me to tell you she misses the desert weather! Rain today...
     
  14. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #14 AceMaster, Nov 22, 2011
    Give Daniel (Ricambi) a shout, he'll explain this to you and get you set up with the right parts
     
  15. Ricambi America

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    #15 Ricambi America, Nov 22, 2011
  16. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #16 ernie, Nov 22, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
    Here's another how-to-thread Vince posted on how to remove the throw out bearing.
    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=301895

    Again, please take pics of what you do and post them up. The more how-to threads we have the better. It all helps out the next brother.
     
  17. Chupacabra

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    #17 Chupacabra, Nov 22, 2011
    Thanks, Daniel! Pricey, but well worth it, I'm sure. I'll take a good, hard look at the T/O bearing and it's condition and decide if I want to drop that right now. Everything else -- if one is leaking, I figure I should just do 'em all!
     
  18. pnicholasen

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    #18 pnicholasen, Nov 22, 2011
    I'm undergoing the same repair at present. Leak was from the "slave cylinder" O rings. Go on the Ricambi site to the 348 model page, than look at "table 24 Clutch and Controls" page. What I ordered were part #'s 137249 (the infamous triple seals), 121813, 131651, 143178, and 151872. Hopefully that will stop leakage. The parts guy was very helpful 'cause the description of part # 131651 is a "gasket" but it's actually a big rubber oilseal. The throwout bearing felt fine. If your bearing spins freely I would just replace the above listed seals. While you have the clutch off, open it up and check for clutch wear. Takes no time once you've you've got the assembly off the car. There are some great threads on here on the proceedure. Just make sure you make some scratch or paint marks so it goes back together the same as before. The torque on the final bolts on the clutch, if it's the twin plate, is 18 ft.lbs. The other pearl of wisdom I got from somebody's thread was to use the 2 long bolts that you removed from the pumpkin housing that go to the starter to pull the clutch initially back together against the spring pressure. Put one at 12 o'clock, one at 6 o'clock. Once you get them tightened a bit you'll be able to get the regular bolt close enough to catch their threads. Remove the starter bolts, replace with the regular bolts and you're there. I hosed all the clutch parts with brake cleaner and wiped it down on the off chance that some of that leaking fluid got onto the clutch plates.
     
  19. AceMaster

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    #19 AceMaster, Nov 22, 2011
    That's exactly what I did ;)
     
  20. Ricambi America

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    #20 Ricambi America, Nov 22, 2011
    I'm sorry to say, we're getting a price update on Jan 1 from Hill Engineering and the flange goes up.
     
  21. Chupacabra

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    #21 Chupacabra, Nov 22, 2011
    Crap... :) Well, I should know if I need one well before then, I guess.

    Thanks for all the input, fellas! Good stuff from everyone!
     
  22. chas-3

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    #22 chas-3, Nov 22, 2011
    Do this upgrade. You will never have to deal with this again. :)
    (just my humble opinion)
     
  23. mikster

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    #23 mikster, Nov 25, 2011
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  24. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #24 ernie, Nov 25, 2011
    Looks to me that what ever was used to seal up the bearing cover has seen better days. I used Hondabond HT to seal up the side covers on my gearbox. So far so good to date.
     
  25. Rorie

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    #25 Rorie, Nov 25, 2011
    I've had my 355 out in the driveway the past few days. It has been getting cold and now I am noticing a small leak under the car. I had the gearbox done with all the hill engineering stuff this summer So from reading this i assume it is the cold affecting the seal. I love this site. It's like you guys are psychic. Either that or misery loves company!
     
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