Advantage of Carbon Ceramic Brakes: Aston AMV8 vs F430

I don't have any idea how hard the Ring is on brakes but if there are areas where the hard braking zones are close enough together to cause conventional brakes to fade, the ceramics would be faster. How much is very difficult to say. In fact any comparison of lap times on the Ring is just silly unless the times are done on the same day with the same driver. I would anticipate that with all things equalized the F430 is significantly quicker on any road course than the Aston - just look at the road tests for acceleration times, and the F430 is much lighter, so should have a big cornering and braking advantage.

Gary

 

The AMV8 and F430 times at the ring show 2 possibilities :


-Either that developping a car there will result in an amazing lap time compared to a car that wasnt ( case here )

-Ferrari sucks on the track/AM suddenly are trackcars


I certainly hope the first possibility is the truth because how can an AMV8 be that fast compared to a mid engine-+100hp-+downforce-+lighter car ?

 

IMO of course, ppl vastly overrate carbon brakes, they are helpful on a track of course but it takes a hell of a lot of abuse to experience significant fade on the street. Good steel brakes are adequate for road driving and much cheaper to maintain.

 

Sounds weird. The Ferrari should be considerably faster then the Aston. 110hp difference is a lot. Plus everybody commented on how the Aston does not really feel that fast.

 

I am dismayed to hear that this trivial difference matters so much in your (or anyone's) choice.

 

Oh my. You don't really believe that, do you? The 430 is MUCH faster, just drive both cars. Have you been listening to your own thread?

If you want the AM, by all means buy it. It's a beautiful car. But do yourself a favor and don't try to believe some fairy tale about performance it can't live up to.

Gary

 

I am looking at a similar decision. For me it is the AMV8 or a used 360 (since they are priced the same).

The AMV8 is fast and Aston has done a great job with the car. Sat in one, spent a lot of time around a few, and I have a test drive coming up soon. The car looks stunning in the flesh... I actually prefer it to all of the current Ferrari designs. It is hand "assembled" and quality seems very high from early reports. While dubbed a sports car it really fits in between a hard GT and a sports car. But it can really pull off everyday driving duty and has a huge luggage area for a car in this category. And the car is LOUD!

BUT... there is something about a Ferrari that is undeniable... a pure sports car quality. While the Aston has exclusivity, the Ferrari has passion. Listening to a 360 with stage 3 Capristo exhaust puts a shiver in my spine. The Ferrari is more expensive to maintain and less convincing as an every day car. Choices, choice...

Back to the topic... The Aston and the 360 are probably similar in performance numbers (not in feel) but the 430 is definitely a step up from either one. Of course a 430 is also $60-80K more expensive and we can debate whether that amount of money is worth the performance gain and a horse on the hood.

Kudos to Aston for a beautiful car that has reached an impressive level of performance. And kudos to Ferrari for re-writing the book on what a sports car should be...

 

In my opinion, unless you plan on tracking your car ALOT, like every weekend and threashold break all day long, ceramic break rotors are a waist of money. Yes they do have an advantage over traditional breaks, but they are SUPER expensive to replace. Unlike metal rotors you cannot resurface them. Once they are done, they are done, and brand new ones must be fitted.

Save your money.

 

Unless you are a professional driver and plan on racing the car in a series, lap times are pointless. Go drive each and figure out which one you like better. Buy that one.

 

Birdness

Like I said in my previous post it is really personal preference. Personally, my current plan is to buy an AMV8 and use it as an every day car. Then I am going to wait for used 360CS or used 430 prices to decline a bit and pick one up later. Why? Because I can't justify the price delta to the Ferrari for what you get in return. Also you will find that used Ferrari's are very low mileage and there are typically MANY examples in great condition (even 5+ years old).

Don't get me wrong... The Ferrari is a big step up from the AMV8 in performance, passion, etc. but I can't justify the price increase AND end up with a car I won't be comfortable driving every day. So for me, I will pick up an AMV8 which I won't hesitate piling the miles on and watch Ferrari prices over the next few years (this could be an even better idea in Canada).

I am not personally sold on the 430 styling anyway. So I will most likely keep my eye out for a Challenge Stradale as the price drop below $150K in the next few years.

Here are some questions for you:

1. How important is performance in your buying decision? Is a few seconds at the Nurburgring or a few tenths in 0-60 a big deal to you?

2. How important is racing pedigree? Or badge? How do you rate AM vs. Ferrari?

3. How often do you plan on using the car? Daily driver or weekend warrios?

4. Do you plan on tracking the car?

5. How much luggage space do you want/need?

6. What other cars do you have to complement this purchase?

 

u're comparing apple to orange. much beyond the brake.

 

A friend of mine bought an AMV8. I raced with him on a straight line twice with two of my cars; 360 Modena F1 and Merc E55 AMG. He lost on both.
We even exchanged cars and he tried my 360 and my E55 while I was in his AMV8. I lost when I drove the AMV8.
Therefore, it's not a question of driver, it's the car. You want to buy an AMV8, fine. You will love it and enjoy every bit of it. It is a very nice car. But for the sake of humanity, don't compare it to the F430.

The ring times you got are useless. Unless both cars were driven the same day by the same driver, the ring times are not valid. The ring is 20.8 Kilometers long and has more corners per lap than driving in the city for a week. 1% change in weather's temperature and humidity can lead to different lap times. You are surprised (shocked) that the F430 manages only 7:55, but I am actually happy it did that. The driver drove it once and for only one lap he got 7:55, while the AMV8 was driven hundreds of laps to manage 8:03. That's of course not forgetting that both cars were not driven by the same driver.

Buying the AMV8 because you like it and is cheaper; you have my complete respect.
But buying the AMV8 because you are trying to convince yourself it is as powerful and cheaper; is a lame excuse.

 

Shoving seconds off a lap time on the ring is easy, especially if it was the first lap. The 7:55 time was the first lap and the first time (and the only time) the driver drove the F430. So talking about statistics (which you brought up), the F430 can be way faster than 7:55.

Oh, and the M5 couldn't keep up with an F430, except if you are aiming for top speed with a de-limited M5. You are talking about numbers you read while I am talking about real life experience. Even an M6 isn't as good as an F430. Until you try these cars in real life, a little example for you is to watch the Clarkson Heaven and Hell DVD. Here is the torrent link http://www.mininova.org/tor/153942

And here is a link to a thread on m5borad where a member bought both an F430 and an M6. Look for yourself what real people are saying about the car. http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=57464&highlight=m6+f430

 

Also, if you comparing a F430 lap time with off the showroom standard metalic brakes to a F430 with carbon brakes you might see some difference in lap time, but if you put a real race compound pad in both systems you probably won't see much difference unless you were running a enduro.

Carbon ceramics aren't going increase the overal rate at which a car can brake, becuase the limiting factor is the tires grip on the road. You have to run a car for extended periods of time under racing conditions for the ceramic brakes to really be of an advantage. For example in a 12-24 hour enduro you'd probably need to change brake pads and/or rotors once or twice with metalic while you'd require fewer pad and/or rotor changes with ceramics.

If you've ever looked at the one time stopping distance between a car with crappy stock brakes that is then upgraded to a big brake kit from Brembo or StopTech you hardly see any improvement in stopping distance, usually less than 3%.

Ceramic brakes are better because they are more durable and have longer service life extreme use, not because they actually stop the car quicker and a good set of metalics with a good racing compound pad.

 

birdness

Have you actually DRIVEN the AMV8 ????????????????????
If so, I doubt you would even need to ask.

If you are not going to track the car, why are you concerned about racetrack times ?

As gorgeous as the AMV8 is, it is also heavy, harsh, labourious, and does not FEEL particularly fast.
I was about to purchase an AMV8 as a daily driver, and changed my mind after a few hours with the car in "real world" conditions.

As surprising as it may sound, IMHO, the 360 makes for a better daily driver.....

 

Hi, Pusher,

I know that it´s a topic but only in u the answer is. With ferrari u can´t ask logical questions, ask yourself and put in a balance: how much "red" blood flows trough your vains and how much the passion weight´s in you. The answer is there althoug I agree that the new AMV8 it´s also a bit spicy.

Take care

 

DEAR FRIEND

THERE IS NO POINT TO COMPARE, FERRARI IS IN RACING CLASS AND ASTON MARTIN IS A GT; YOU BETTER READ MORE ABOUT THESE 2 DIFFERENT CARS.
FERRARI 430 IS A SUPER SPORT CAR AND ASTON MARTIN IS A GT. I DO NOT KNOW WHERE DID YOU GET THE INFORMATION FROM, BUT IS NOT CORRRECT, YOU BETTER READ AUTO MOTOR UND SPORT AND LOOK AT THE TIME OF BOTH CARS IN NURBURING AND ARE NOT THE ONES YOU SPECIFY, F430 IS MUCH QUIKER WITH AN IMPORTANT FIFFERENCE, MAKING TIMES CLOSE R TO THE PORSCHE CARRERA GT.

 

Didn't ProDrive choose between Ferrari and Aston Martin for racing?

 

Napolean

I agree with your points. Listening to a 360 fire up with a Capristo Stage 3 exhaust is mind-blowing. If you have any "Rossa Corsa" blood in your veins you will be affected.

However, everybody is in a different situation and I only ask the questions to help the poster make a decision (and to find out how red his blood is)... Due to maintenance, costs, mileage sensitivity on value, etc a Ferrari is not as god as a daily driver. Some won't care and drive it every day and they are my heros. I believe a Ferrari should be driven until the wheels fall off... then restored... then driven until the wheels fall off... repeat.

The Aston is significantly cheaper and will not have the same issues as Ferrari... it will have different ones. The AM will have great exclusivity for the money, stunning looks, and a good drive but it won't have that red blooded passion.

The question the poster has is how much is that passion and additional performance worth? Does it = Ferrari $ - AM $? I would say yes assuming you could afford either car.