Adverse Possession Laws | FerrariChat

Adverse Possession Laws

Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by jsa330, Mar 31, 2007.

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  1. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 World Champ
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    Oct 31, 2003
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    Scott
    We recently purchased an existing single family home here in Dallas, with the intent of remodeling and then moving from our too-large present house when the work was completed.

    Mid-last week, a next door neighbor at the new location left a letter in our mailbox, in which he stated that he was claiming a part of our property under Texas Adverse Possession statutes. Per the title survey and a resurvey I had performed, an existing fence diagonals across the true common side property line, thus incorporating a portion of our lot into his back yard. The neighbor claims that this fence was in existence when he purchased his property 33 years ago and that he always assumed the placement delineated the property line, thus giving him legal grounds to make the Adverse Possession claim.

    I've already made contact with a couple of attorneys and will no doubt receive sound legal advice, but was also wondering if anyone here had encountered a similar problem.
     
  2. Dave1442397

    Dave1442397 Karting

    Feb 11, 2007
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    Cherry Hill, NJ
  3. BLUROAD

    BLUROAD F1 Veteran

    Feb 3, 2006
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    Fight to the death. I would also inquire to how long the Previous owner new of his claim and if they disclosed this info to the realtor. You may have a claim with the previous owner if you can befriend the neighbor into giving you written proof the previous owner had been notified of the neighbors intentions. If so then they previous owner may have sold the home to you to avoid this confrontation and that Is not legal IMO. Also the Realeastate company has to disclose these types of things if they know about it. Proof is what your after. JJ
     
  4. Ike

    Ike F1 Rookie

    Nov 4, 2003
    3,543
    report him to the postal inspector for putting something in your mailbox if you want to piss him off a little. I think its a $1000 fine.
     
  5. BLUROAD

    BLUROAD F1 Veteran

    Feb 3, 2006
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    +1 then tel him you have a large gun collection and you shoot first questions later maybe one of those NRA signs. JJ
     
  6. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 World Champ
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    Guys..thanks very much for responding.

    In the interests of privity, I've moved this question to the Suscribed Forums section...the neighbor knows I have a Ferrari; never know where he might be snooping. :(
     
  7. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 World Champ

    Was this fact disclosed when you purchased the property? If not then you have some recourse. This neighbor guy pulled a fast one and I'll bet the previous owner, if he knew didn't disclose it. If it was disclosed in some way in the paperwork and you overlooked it then you're SOL.
     
  8. Evolved

    Evolved F1 Veteran

    Nov 5, 2003
    8,700
    Tell him how much the reassessment of the property is going to hurt him and take it to court.

    You cannot let this go now that you have received notice. You must pursue it.
    Since you just purchased the property he should have very little claim.


    After you win tear down the fence and put an abandoned(but registered) car on the property line.

    I had a similar problem one time with a summer house so I bought several toilets and parked them right along the property line for the winter.
     
  9. QT3141

    QT3141 Formula Junior

    Jul 24, 2006
    609
    Exactly what I was thinking. If it really wasn't disclosed by the previous owner, then he misrepresented to you what he could legitimately sell to you, and you can likely claim damages from him for it.
     
  10. TopCloser

    TopCloser Formula Junior

    Mar 20, 2006
    309
    If the fence has been up for 33 years, then you probably only have recourse against the seller. Regardless ask yourself 5 things:

    1. Did your neighbor actually use the strip he's claiming? He can't take it if he hasn't been "in possession" of it.

    2. Was his AP "open and notorious?" Meaning, was the use in such a manner as to put a diligent landower on notice of the AP?

    3. Was your neighbor's use of the claimed land exclusive? Did he share it with anyone, including the PO?

    4. Was your neighbor's use adverse and hostile? Meaning, has he been in possession of the land without the permission of the PO or you?

    5. Was his use continuous, meaning did he use it in a manner that a regular owner would use the land?

    If the answer to any of these is "no", then he's got nothing. Numbers 2 and 3 will be your friend in the issue. For 2, if the land he is claiming is so small as to not be able to put you or the PO on notice that he was using it, it is not "open and notorious." For 3, if the PO realized that the fence was mislaid, but gave permission to your neighbor to use the land outside of the fence, then no AP exists.

    Finally, even if a court does award him the land, they may require him to pay you for it.
     
  11. ascari_2

    ascari_2 Karting

    Oct 9, 2005
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    1: If it's part of his back yard, chances are that the court will agree with him that he used it.

    2: If he had a fence around that part it would easily be interpreted as open and notorious.

    3: Definitely something to look into. But keep in mind this usually refers to (besides the original owner) other members of the public not expressly permitted on the land by the adverse possessor.

    4:If the previous owner of the house was aware of mistake and knew that part of his property was being used by his neighbour that should put a big damper in his case.

    5: If he lived in his place for the last 33 years chances are he won't have a problem with his.

    With an AP claim, the court will not require him to pay for the land.

    Most important I would say right now is to talk to the previous owner to find out what he knows about this and if he allowed the use of the property.

    If his claim against you goes though then you can try to sue for a recision of the land sale contract on the idea of misrepresentation, or you can try to sue for damages in tort for misrepresentation, but you'd probably need to be sure that the previous owner or the seller was aware of this issue.

    Anyhow take what I say with a grain of salt...I'm just trying to brain storm here a little.

    Yuri
     
  12. Rolex888

    Rolex888 Karting

    Jun 4, 2005
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    Unfortunately that neighbor of yours is right. You won't be able to reclaim that lost part of your property because it's been so long. If you fight a legal battle with him, you're most likely going to lose. Your only hope is to go after the seller/listing agent and his company. Check your disclosures and see if there's anything in the original purchase contract that would relate to any of this. Good luck.
     
  13. audihenry

    audihenry Formula Junior
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    Mar 27, 2006
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    This happens all the time. In California, it takes about third as much time for it to go into effect.
     
  14. ylshih

    ylshih Shogun Assassin
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    #14 ylshih, Apr 2, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's a summary regarding adverse possession laws in Texas.

    If the fence has been there for 33 years, it seems like it falls under the 10 year statute, which basically says you're hosed. However the exception is the "fences of convenience" clause, which says if the fence is where it is because it's hard to put it in the right spot, then your title is preserved. The other possible exception is if the original owners at the time the fence was built gave permission to put the fence on their property for some reason. If you could somehow prove that, it might not be adverse possession (because the summary is unclear about what happens to the permission, i.e. non-adverse possession, if both parcels of land are later transferred through multiple clueless owners); but it might still become an easement at this point.

    In any case, if you bought the property based on the visual evidence of where the fence was, it doesn't sound like you really lost anything relative to your expectations. The exception here would be if the broker/seller told you the property was 1 acre (for example) and this loss of land results in it being 0.8 acres; in which case you might have a case against them. The other party for recourse could be the title insurance.
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  15. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Your MLS should have a survey with the "found" property corners....
     
  16. Island Time

    Island Time F1 World Champ
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    Shouldn't the buyer have surveyed before the sale?...for "due diligence"?
     
  17. ZINGARA 250GTL

    ZINGARA 250GTL F1 World Champ
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    He most likely did it after the mail came that day. Had he done it before the USPS would have removed it.



     
  18. GTSguy

    GTSguy Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2004
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    Scott - I am not a lawyer, but I have had to deal with this for clients. In California there have been changes in 'Grandfather' takings such as this. Originally, leaving said fence for 5 years literally granted the property to the adjoining property. But this law was changed about ten years ago. The law now takes into account what the losing party knew (as suggested above). It is my understanding that if you purchased the property without knowing that the fence was improperly located you have a right to the property. A complicating factor is that you were not the owner when the fence was put up. But if this conditition was known to you when you purchased, you would be expected to give it up. Of course things could be quite different in Texas... This neighbor looks like a complete (you know what)! Good luck!

    Jon
     

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