Interesting argument/observation. I can see his rationale. Ferrari should forget 2014 F1 title hopes says Lotus's Alan Permane - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com Ferrari should forget 2014 F1 title hopes says Lotus's Alan Permane By Jonathan Noble Tuesday, September 24th 2013, 15:10 GMT --Fernando Alonso has been told he is dreaming if he thinks that the 2014 Formula 1 rule changes offer a total reset in Ferrari's bid to beat Red Bull. The Spaniard said after defeat at the Singapore Grand Prix that his focus was on next year's title battle, because the change to new V6 turbo engines will mean everyone starts from zero. But Lotus trackside operations director Alan Permane thinks that the scale of Red Bull's current advantage is such that the outfit is still going to be ahead at the start of 2014. "It is not like Caterham and Marussia are going to start on a level playing field," Permane told AUTOSPORT. "It is not going to happen. "There will be a bit of a reset, but there won't be a total reset. "Sebastian [Vettel] has got a two second per lap advantage now, and he is going to carry some of that advantage over into next year. "And let's face it - Red Bull are better at building a quicker car now, so why are they not going to be better at building it next year? "I guess there is the impact of the engine, but there is no reason to believe that Renault will not do a competent job with that. They should be fine. "You can be sure he [Vettel] will have the power and the engine will be fuel efficient. "Red Bull are still going to be the team to beat next year, and Vettel will be the man to beat." Permane admitted that the extent of Vettel's advantage in Singapore had been a shock. Sebastian Vettel F1 2013 "It is 2.5 seconds per lap," he said. "That has got to be mostly him [Vettel], as Mark Webber wasn't anywhere near that. "I don't suspect he goes flat out apart from qualifying and times like that. It is soul destroying for everyone honestly. "If I was Fernando, talking about winning the championship? Forget it, they are not even close. "And they won't even be close next year, if they [Red Bull] have got that sort of advantage now."--
If that were the track side operations manager of my team, I would sack him on the spot. If he believes Ferrari has no chance against Red Bull, knowing absolutely nothing about the design of the car, he apparently feels the same about the cars of his employer. I would be really unhappy with such an undocumented sense of negativity. Besides, Yes, in Singapore Vettel was unbeatable. But we have also seen races were Vettels victory wasn't a forgone conclusion. Who is to say that the current domination, which we have only seen in Singapore, will set the tone in 2014? By his theory, the team that has the upperhand, will always remain the team to beat, since they seem to carry that advantage with them to the next season. Funny thing is that teams that have known to have fundamental advantages over their rivals, have lost that advantage at one time or another. Red Bull will lose their domination. Question is not if, but when.
He is also fully aware of the resources at his disposal for his own team. Thats hardly a secret. FA put feelers out to different teams. That is also telling as well. BBC reported Ferrari are having issues with their new powerplant and hope to change the new engine rules to allow for more engines. The commentary is not by some hack F1 journo either. I find his commentary interesting. Next year will be very very interesting. I hope Ferrari have a better car but they lack a Newey type unifying figure. Their new personnel acquisitions will hopefully pay off. Frankly this coming from an F1 insider is very worrisome. Red Bull move to the new year intact where it counts.
If Red Bull and SV were so dominant, they wouldn't have come so close to LOSING the championship twice in the last several years!
A change in the regulations sometimes brings with it a reshuffling of the cards and a change of fortune for some teams. Red Bull is dominant now, like McLaren was, or Williams, or Renault, or even Ferrari, but that may be different in future. The trio Vettel, Horner, Newey won't last for ever...
Ferrari in 2004. Williams in 1993. Dinosaurs just before being hit by a big rock. Everybody feels inmortal sometimes, but nobody is.
??? Silly comment IMO. Today is today, they are (well, Vettel) 2.5 seconds a lap quicker. They weren't the last few years. Unless if the car blows up, or Vettel is injured and of course, by force majeure, vettel stands likely to win the next 6 GP. In the meantime, Newey will engineer is new masterpiece. Underestimate these 3 at your own risk. Red Bull dolla, Vettel and Newey.
Remember that Rory Byrne is back at Ferrari helping with the design of the 2014 car. He's the only one on par with Newey.
True. But: In 2005 Ferrari was hit by terrible tires. They're car, was still good, just the tires where hopeless. In 1994 all of Williams' toys got taken away. For 2014, none of the toys are taken away. RBR isn't as quick as they are because of the engine package. They are where they are because of superior aero, and the only way to take that is by buying Newey (and Ferrari have tried. Perhaps not hard enough...). Or introduce another Newey esque person in the game (Byrne/Alison?). The Constructors title is manageable for next year, but drivers championship is a very, very tough one...
The RB advantage at this point in the season is so massive technically and in points terms. They do not need to do any further development of their car this season - it's that simple. All RB technical resources can now be dedicated (if they haven't already been) to 2014 and beyond. This season is over, and next season doesn't look too promising for all other teams if RB take an evolutionary strategy to car development. Would it be unrealistic to suggest that Ferrari et al's best hope of winning the WDC/WCC would be if they go for a radical new design, hope RB do the same, and hope that they strike design gold, and RB mess up?
I believe Ferrari are going to be there until the very last lap at Interlagos. That RB showed some of its vulnerabilities the last two races w the need for soft-shifting etc. and they are down to their last gearbox and engine already...so, if something happens, count on Alonso to be there to capitalize. I have faith!
Actually, the Ferrari of 2005 had other issues apart from tyres. And Williams still had the Renault engine, theoretically good aero, and Adrian Newey, who apparently is GOD, so he could have created some new toys. Respecting Red Bull, their better trick was the blown diffuser. In theory, they´re banned now, but everybody knows that the exhaust is still playing a big role in the aero of the car. Some say that Red Bull are so good right now because since the British GP with succesive redesigns of the diffuser managed to gain part of the downforce lost with the "ban" (note quotes) of the EBD. But next year, with the mandatory central exhaust, there´s not going to be any way of circunventing that EBD ban. Is Newey going to invent something new or is going to make another lethal trap like the Williams of 1994? Plus, nobody knows if Renault is going to make a ****ty engine. And only God knows what Pirelli is going to do! Let´s not forget that the now almighty Newey and the big guns at Red Bull were crying like girls after the Spanish GP because they didn´t like the tyres. What would happen if FIA hadn´t allowed to change them? Let´s not forget also that after the change in the tyres Mercedes has been very quick, sometimes marginally quicker than Red Bull, and they look like they´re going up, not down. In my opinion, Red Bull is going to be the team to beat again in 2014, and the clear favourites. but I think everybody here has been watching F1 for long enough to know that things can change very quickly in this sport. Maybe it´s just that Permane thinks that all the other teams are so knee-deep in the sh¡t like his.
Great post and 100% correct. What stupid comments from this guy, as if he has any idea what is in store for next year. What makes him think Ferrari would be more competitive in 2015 if they gave up on next year? Dumb, dumb, dumb. There is no evidence of this whatsoever.
He has 24 yrs experience with F1. I dont see bitterness in his post at all. Its a rational look at Red Bull's perceived advantage for next year without reguard at all to anything Kimi.
It's not bitter, but it's VERY defeatist. If I was running a team, he would be canned. No need for a piss poor attitude like that bringing everyone down. It's completely irrational. Ferrari should forget 2014 title hopes? How does that make any sense? No one knows what is going to happen next year with these new engines. By the way, someone should tell this guy that Ferrari took the title to the last race two separate years DESPITE Red Bull having a much quicker car so how is it "dreaming" to think they have a good chance with a huge shakeup in regs, the Kimi acquisition, a revamped wind tunnel and Byrne back on board?
There's no doubting their current form, but RB's "dominance" in the last three races also coincides with Ferrari's announcements about stopping development on the 2013 car, and the recent wishful thinking on SD's part re: a RD breakdown. MS was clinching earlier in the season, not in the last race on two occasions like RB... Again, for all their "dominance", RB came pretty close to missing out not once but twice.
He right its going to be hard to bet the soda cans next year.ldm is going talk out his ass about next year and set unrealistic goals just like he did from 96 to 2000 and its going to hurt fa with added pressure.Ross Brawn has set reasonable goals that the team can achieve if rat does not mess it up they will be in a strong number 2 next year got the better driver line imo. Ldm may a bad call with kimi. Lbm could've got hulk and let fa make a run at it next two years and at same time work on the team structure . Now ldm is going to have a full blown driver war with no answer about the future . Ldm is the perein that needs to be replaced if fiat was smart and thank god they are italian they would call ross to run the race side . But ross will buy williams and get benz motor with micheal selling sponsorship
That's still to be proven, since Newey's car has been the best on the grid for the last 4 years. Rory was employed during that time.
Until someone designs a car that aerodynamically is as well-balanced as the RBR, I'm inclined to side with Permane. Ferrari's car was equal to the Red Bull at the start of the year, but it seemed to have a very low ceiling for further development, while Newey has added a 2.5 sec/lap gap between Red Bull and Ferrari. The guy's ability to evolve a car during the season is the real advantage for Red Bull. He's simply better than everyone else. Now, with in-season testing back in play, I think that should give more hope to the other teams.
This will hopefully help the red team a bit more. Also it benefits all others as well! Somehow the Newey cabal must be broken
