Advice for PPI When Buyer Out of State?

Exactly. There is or will be a 328 on the market I did some work on. When the owner bought it I told him to budget $14,000 to do the deferred maintainence and repairs it needed to be "Reliable & Roadworthy". He budgeted $4000 and was unhappy because it kept breaking down.


You check list wouldn't fly either, at least in my case. Do you believe just because you change the name it will change my or anyone else's policies? Not only that you are limiting yourself to what you know to check. Leaves out a lot of stuff I know because of my experience in working on them.

 

My thoughts were that it would eliminate the liability of a broad "inspection" when you have a checklist that you look for specific things and put specific values on. Typically when I have a dealer inspect a Porsche for me, they use the 150-point CPO sheet...that way I can't blame them for missing something that I think they should have caught.

 

I've always respected your opinions and your posts. And I'm afraid I know your answer to this (don't buy one), but is there a solution? So, assume the car is far away and older. I am close with some mechanics, but not Ferrari mechanics. What do I do? Even if I was willing to pony up for the mechanic's expenses (two days with travel, per diem, hourly rate, etc.) there are the issues of finding a shop to use where the car is, and the lack of Ferrari-specific experience with my mechanic.

 

To Scotty & Doug, the liabilities could be addressed but to combine that with the expectations of many modern buyers of Ferraris and the fact that most of us just do/did it as a service to clients it is no longer worth the headaches. There are just too many negatives in the Ferrari business to continue to do it. It is just going the way of the dinosaur.
I will and I suspect Dave does too, continue doing it for long time clients but beyond that?

As far as everyone else, use common sense, buy from respected sellers and keep your fingers crossed.

 

As Brian stated, I do them for a select group of customers who know my level of critique and expectations but they damn sure dont cost the few hundred dollars folks have come to expect. On occation I have also done them when I do not know either party but in every example it left me questioning why I do this to myself.

Having anyone with anything short of verifiable decades long experiance on a given MODEL, let alone the marque, doing these types of check outs is a waste of money. Verifiable is a key word as there are a great many Net experts these days that havent so much as removed a cam cover on some of these cars. ""Doing a bunch of high dollar diagnostics, blah blah blah, often makes things very complicated, and often it just raises more doubts than answers."" Doing anything less than that amounts to someone telling you how pretty the wheels are. The job is to remove doubts and a casual glance has been followed by legal actions. Choose your medicine, this is the indecission that has led to my decision to walk away from this type of work. Some Yugo/Porsche (choose a marque) tech looks over a Ferrari, gives it a clean bill and the purchase is made. A week later I read on here how PPI's are 'worthless' and it goes on for 5 pages how the shops/techs are cheats or some swill about how unrealiable a given model is.

""Was not much of a friend if he/she asked you to lie. "" Maybe.... but it was a relationship I valued for decades and it hurt to loose it. What is the value of ones word? More than $4K in that instance and rest assured it happens every day in some manner or another.

In my day to day operation I do many things/jobs I know I will loose money on, just part of what I accept. I ask myself if it will have a positive affect on an owners long term ownership and if the answer is yes... I do it. More than the money loosing aspect or the legal liability views which can always be worked around... this new "Witch Hunt" mentality... Common decency and respect has completely gone out the door and these threads are allowed to go on for no reason other than hit counts. Bad workmanship and dishonest 'for high returns only' repairs upset folks like Brian and myself every bit as much as the owners themselves, this is our industry and we have to deal with the fallout of such.

I have ideas how this could work out for all 3 parties but honestly refuse to subject myself to the potential Lynch Mob mentality that is sure to follow. Next time you read one of these types of threads, question yourself on how it will affect the service industry, rest assured... it will.

 

In my opinion, priceless, as you cannot attach a price-tag to a man's word and reputation.

True (unfortunately)

Likely easier to split the atom, woudn't it be Dave?

 

Not sur eif this helps, but when I bouhgt my 360 late last year it was in another state. It had NO records and "high miles". I know that I should have run fast.. but I didn't.

I found a mechanic in the area sourced from ferrarichat. I told him that I don't need a full PPI, I know there are going to be things that won't get seen. I told him that all I need is someone on the ground as if I was there looking at things, and a compression check.

He did the checkout and told me about the issues he could see. It sounded good and I used this to get my price on the car. IN the end, yes there were a few things that were missed. I would have missed it as well so I don't hold it to him. What he said it needed, it needed. And although it wasn't an exhaustive PPI, he didn't bill me exhaustively either. I was VERY happy when she arrived and am very happy today.
It's a gamble any way you look at it. If it has records from a reputable mechanic and they are familiar with the car.. that is a definite leg up though.. Good luck. I know it can be harrowing!

 

1. Don't buy without a PPI. (especially a F355!)
2. Nobody does PPIs.

Houston, we have a problem.

 

To Brian and David. I hear and understand what you are saying. Trying to imagine what it would be like in your shoes is challenging, but I think I would be of like mind. I have wondered for some years why shops do PPI's, short of not having enough business to keep the lights on.

 

This brings up an interesting issue, which may apply to this section of F-Chat. This is not the first thread regarding the increasing number of places that are declining to preform PPI's. Although it is clearly speculation, this may effect the way certain Ferrari's are bought and sold. For example, more transactions may become local. Also, as certain cars approach a tipping point (cost of significant repairs = fair market value), the market for those cars may change drastically.

As a potential buyer, it does shift the buying paradigm.

 

It will surely affect the way the cars are purchased in some manner. The PPI concept started off quite innocent and with the best of intentions, it worked very well for a number of years, decades actually. As the models grew more complex with the computer systems, emissions controls and such, the need for a very well trained eye to be doing this task became paramount. For decades all that was required was a flashlight, a compression tester and a pair of channel lock plyers.

Today a full and complete understanding of all the models systems is a must as the clues to a problem are incredibly subtle at best, doing a check out without the SD tester is all but worthless. Having the tester but less than an intimate knowledge of the systems it is reading is no better. Read that as the second line tech, a salesman, a lot tech... anyone short of a marque trained front line tech doing this task is throwing good money away. Pulling a front line tech off a paying job being done for a local customer does not happen for a few hundred bucks. Anyone thinking a PPI like that presents a good value best think again. Complex cars have complex problems, predicting those problems from a few hour check over on an unfamilure car... That is no easy task and can not be accomplished at a glance and a drive around the block.

Assuming a car is good because a reputable mechanic serviced the car at some time? Remember, we are only allowed to do what is authorized by the owner of the car regardless of what the car might need. I have yet to see any "Needs List's" included in any documents being handed to a prospective buyer. The newer models (broadly speaking, 348 and up) have "Regional" problems that few understand. Cars from the snow belt have a whole host of different issues than those from the warm climates. Knowledge of ALL the variables is an essential requirement..... what is being asked for is no longer an easy task.

 

1) Dont think for a moment it is limited to just the 355!

2) Some say they do. Speaking for myself, my choice not to is a reaction to what is happening today.

Remember, even a blind squirrel stumbles across a fresh nut now and then.

For these PPI's to have value it would require a group of respected tech's across the country to agree on a set of minimum standards that would define what a good example of each model would be from their respective area. It would require a defined set of tests be completed and the results of all of these variables combined to define what a PPI "Is" on any given model. The most difficult hurdle would be to remove all negative connotations, consequences and financial burdens from doing them let alone justifying taking the time to set up such a standard.

Never going to happen. As Mike wisely pointed out, "Likely easier to split the atom".

 

This is depressing and discouraging. I think I will cancel my to-be-scheduled ppi.

 

One shift I can see is more individuals going to put "eyes on"cars they are considering purchasing. A challenge there is the availability of a lift--while i have no sklll in performing a Ferrari specific PPI, i have spend enough time underneath and wrenching on cars to at least get a sense of certain things (fluid leaks, etc.).

Thinking about this, pricing negotiations often centered around "adjustments for what needs done". I wonder if there will be a price decrement for "things that might need to be done" if PPI's do indeed fall by the wayside.

I also wonder if this is going to further differentiate used cars purchased from authorized dealers (or well respected independents) versus private parties.