After drive I smell gasoline - diagnosis??

Probably. You will need to get it inspected, before you have a carbbq...

 

possibly cracked fuel pumps and or roll over valves

 

I would start with fuel lines before getting into mechanical parts, expecially the high pressure injection lines.

 

What high pressure injector lines are you talking about? 360's are not know for having any fuel line problems, but they have significant problems with both the fuel pump housings cracking/leaking and the roll-over valves leaking. Those are the cause of 99% of 360 fuel leaks.

 

I agree with cracked fuel pump diagnosis, that is about 95% of 360 fuel smell issues. I have done 4-5 this year.

 

Check the EVAP system

 

Up your insurance and keep driving....j/k

Another vote for cracked top on fuel pump, or leaky rollovers

 

My Bad... I had just left the 308 section and still had that model in my mind.

 

High Pressure Fuel Lines to the Rails. Problems.

 

Roll-over valves on top of the fuel tanks.

My experience with fuel smell:
I didn’t believe my sense of smell and told myself it was from refueling or the High-G turn did it, or it was the car in front of me. How could Ferrari design something that would leak?

Fuel vent system flaw:
In my belief, the four valves and their tubes that run to the engine have insufficient strength. The lines push and pull valve until it cracks the valve. All four of mine in my Spider were cracked and leaking fuel vapor. If I were the Ferrari Engineer I would have made the Roll-over valves with a thicker wall dimension. In addition, I would have used rubber hose between the valve and the QD (Quick Disconnect).

Study:
I studied the maintenance manual and shows that a Spider requires that the “cassette”, a combination of the Roll Bars and the Folding Top or Capote. It’s pretty complex to remove the “Capote”. Roll bars, folding frame it all comes out as one piece. That means the seats, rear panels, big bolts that hold the Roll Bars and the whole folding top. Oh, and do I need to pull the hydraulic lines from the pump that operate the capote? More fittings, wiring, dripping fluid. Afterward I would need to bleed the hydraulics. Maybe I need a SD2 to bleed the system. I would be pulling this thing with an engine hoist, two engine hoists, two or four people. And now the big one. GOD forbid I scratch the paint!

Cool word Capote, say it with your best Italian accent and a hand finger movements like you see in the movies.

Engineering Solution:
Cut holes in the scupper pan that is below the folding top when stowed. This pan collects water that easily finds its way under the capote and funnels it out the bottom of the car.

Anyway, back to my points.

Execution:
Buy new valves. Expect to pay $650 plus shipping and taxes. I get most of my parts from the UK. (Eurospares.co.uk), cheaper than US dealers. With my solution of not removing the cassette requires cutting four 3” holes in the drain pan. The almost inflexible lines that cause the whole problem and the roll-over valves can’t be installed through the 3” hole with the hose connected. I freed the valves and the quick disconnects thus removing the inflexible tube/hose. I found some high quality 10mm / 3/8”) rubber hose made or marketed by Fragola Performance Systems. It was originally Parker Hannifin Corporation with a trade name of Push-Lok 8600-8700. I bought from a company called Summit Racing. It is rated at 350 psi and is compatible with gasoline. I also found at Summit Racing pinch clamps that work well to secure the rubber line to the fittings. I found some 3” hole plugs to fill in the new access holes.

Procedure:

1. To gain access to Capote pan, raise or lower top about midway through the cycle where the most access is achieved. “I propped my rear Capote cover up with a cardboard box cover with a bath towel.”
2. Drill center pilot hole. Locating the center of the 3“ his critical to get the valve out and back in the tank. It is not directly centered over the center of the valve.
3. Drill four 3” circular holes in fiberglass pan under Capote.
4. Cut ridged tubing off existing leaking roll-over valves.
5. Remove old roll-over valves by twisting counter clockwise.
6. Remove rigid QD’s from engine and line from the vehicle.
7. Dissect the new line from the new roll-over valves and QD’s.
8. Install roll-over valves using a fuel compatible lube on O-ring sparing.
9. Mock-up new rubber lines for length (rough measurement) following the same path as OEM.
10. Install QD’s on each hose using fuel compatible lube.
11. Finalize the connection using pinch clamps. I would not advise using worm gear hose clamps.
12. Connect QD ends to engine vent system.
13. Determine final hose length so that the hose is relaxed and not push or pull on the roll-over valve nipple.
14. Remove the QD on each hose to make the installation to the valve easier.
15. Lightly lube the nipple, slip on a pinch clamp onto the hose.
16. Install hose onto roll-over valve.
17. Crimp pinch clamps. This requires the crimping to be performed within the 3” hole.
18. Install 3” plastic hole plugs using black RTV.
19. Remove the capote support installed in step 1.

Parts:
A. Crimping pliers and crimp clamps from amazon

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073B32XLP/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_c_api_i_7z.dDbGAAESKK

B. Hose, 10mm Parker 801-6 sold by the foot on amazon

https://www.amazon.com/Parker-801-6-BLU-RL-Push-Lok-Multipurpose-Hose/dp/B01GEQUPT4/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=parker+801-6&qid=1561340262&s=gateway&sr=8-2


C. Roll-over valves Ferrari P/N:

P/N Algar Eurospares$ Eurospares€
196484 $362.42 $146.64 €128.88
196485 $362.42 $133.57 €117.39
196486 $337.99 $143.23 €125.88
196487 $436.30 $156.92 €137.91
$1,499.13 $580.36

Shipping and customs fees are reasonable.

Not sure how Ferrari makes up there prices. Since the valves are all the same and the difference is the tubing length and a few slight bends, where do they come up with a $98 difference? Maybe it’s the negotiated price with their vendor based on the volume. It trickles down to the failures in the field. Maybe P/N 196486 breaks more often.

D. Hole saw, 3”

E. Hole plugs, 3”

F. RTV, Black

 

Thank you Keith.
I also custom cut the 'Maintenance Ports' to replace the Roll-Over-Valves since the original post was made a few years ago.
However, I will take it further with the hose mod. It is just plain stupid the way it was designed.
This additional mod allows me to carry around a spare R-O-V on long trips for a 15 min changeover if required.

(Flame Suit on)

Thanks for posting the parts and tools needed

 

Very innovative. Those "maintenance ports" should have been built into the capote from the start.

 

You do not need to cut holes in the tub. With a bit of thinking and using the correct tools, the tub will come out without having to remove the entire convertible top assembly. It takes a bit of fiddling and 2 people to lift it out.

The repair shown is fine for a DIY repair. However, it would be seriously questioned when it comes time to sell the car. (If spotted)

 

+1 for the DIYs

I expected an answer like that from someone like you who's a real Tech and knows these cars inside and out.

Unfortunately Tom, when you take it to the repair shops they all use the "Standard Repair Time" for this job and nail you for the entire thing.
Lots of us here (me included) care less about resale value. I'm keeping mine so not my problem.

Also that plastic tub can be bought used on fleabay for $500 to reverse the process if you had to sell.

 

It might have been helpful to include the HOW for doing this repair in a magical, yet correct fashion instead of poo-pooing the attempts by owners.

 

It was not a poo poo. It was a warning. There are many ways to skin a cat on these cars, however being a tech I must keep in mind the potential consequences for short cuts.

The repair shown is not a bad repair at all..in fact it works quite well. However, if the car was to be sold and taken to a dealer, they would crap all over it, just because it appears to be a short cut. Its sad, but that is the reality.

The ferrari design of these parts is junk..plain and simple. Not other car I have ever seen experianced these issues. Infact, it appears if the correct tubeing was used, would be a permanent repair.

Trouble is, it could turn off a lot of potential buyers if spotted. That's all.

My point about the tub being removed without having to pull the entire top assembly was to point out labor time can be saved. I do not charge "full pop" for this job. Its not fair or ethical to do so.

 

Plus 1 for the fuel pump plastic.


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That was a lot of unnecessary work and damage to the car. You can have that cassette out in two hours and it requires no disassembly of the hydraulics or bleeding. It lifts out as an assembly. There was an update to these rollover vales and seals for all the reasons you listed.

 

Please explain more.

My car is a 2004 with the updated valves and they do get too brittle like the previous ones.
When I first got my car I had to have a roll-over valve changed and was quoted P&L close to $5K from FoO (they suggested I changed all 4 valves WYAIT).
With the maintenance ports I changed it in 30 mins.

 

Another opportunity to scratch the paint in my opinion.

Damage the car???

OMG, not another of those don’t modify a Ferrari. If you change any element of the car it’s blasphemy. I ask, did you add fuel or change the oil? How dare you commit such a mortal sin. It’s not official petroleum from the Factory. How about changing a wiper blade? Please spare me the lessons.

I must be going to HE Double Hockey Sticks for my transgressions.

Sorry to unload, I’m just tired of the owners who have no aptitude to lecture people that do and can. A 2004 360 Spider is not a 1962 250 GTO...

 

Keith, I'm on your side. Re-read my post.
I made the mods 5 years ago. For my next iteration I will mod the valves.
I've been in F Car "HE Double Hockey Sticks" six months after ownership, lol

 

I do apologize for unloading on you. I think I the took the word damage to mean something different than you implied. I’m trying to avert those that have no technical ability and a snobbish opinion of modifying a car that’s nearly the bottom of the totem pole. Again, I would never dream to modify the iconic models of yesteryear.

 

I’m sorry I missed the post on making new ports for rollover valve servicing. Oddly enough, I raised my top today, using the manual and fellow F-Chatter post, I got the thing off in about an hour? Maybe I did something wrong? Once in there my valves and hoses look pretty good so freshening up with new gaskets all around and a new fuel pump gaskets for good measure.


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