Has anyone tried upgrading the ABS to 'motorsport' derived ABS ( there is a Bosch unit for this ), and also implemented Traction Control? I'm looking at some of the finer details of what my F355 build will be, and I'm thinking of implementing a 'manettino', as I'll have the Toda Matsu engine to control ( that's the ~500HP variant). I got the idea after looking at the Nitron F355 R3 kit, which is compatible with their e-TRON damper controller, which in itself is essentially an upgrade/replacement to the OEM damper control. I'll unlikely be sticking with the factory ECU, as I'm also looking into drive by wire, so will be able to have selectable throttle control, which then had me look into how I can use the sensors and have traction control. All able to be switched all on, down to all off of course. So before I dive into this further....has anyone implemented the Traction Control part, even just on/off vs 'variable'?
Subb'd out of interest. The bosch motorsport package is pretty intersting. Their M5 kit will allow for both ABS and traction control. Most GT4 racecars are outfitted with the bosch system and everyone seems to be quite happy with it (I race a Mclaren 570sGT4... unfortunately it doesn't give you full control like the other GT4 cars). I don't see why it wouldn't work if you're also ripping out engine control, and I assume dash so you can have all the systems communicating over canbus. It's a full overhaul of your electronics package. A lot of this depends what the actual goal of the car is. Seems overkill, but if you have the mod itch and money, why not... Thoughts: TC - unlikely to be needed with F355 torque levels ABS - an upgrade to a faster pulsing system would be nice... but you may also have to swap out the master depending on the bosch kit implementation. Could improve feel if you did this. If you're really looking for an improvement though - get better tires, wider front wheels, and a BBK. You'll need the ABS far less. Nitrons - this is a completely separate system from bosch. Treat independently. I looked into this for my Emira, but opted for Ohlins. There's not a lot of data out on the elec-tron system. On the F355, you can up the spring rate and have the dampers rebuilt to higher spec (check PSI Shocks at Sonoma Raceway). It feels fantastic. Effectively the same as getting Nitrons but you can specify values and it plugs into the OEM top controls.
What were the key factors in going down the Ohlins route? I've also had a high level look at the likes of Moton, KWS, and MCS (Motion Control Suspension) four way adjustable for the F355 too.
For the DBW, which uses Bosch components, I am looking at the Haltech and the Motec ECUs, and they have their own throttle peddle, which may also give me the option of buying an F1 edition and converting it to the gated shifter, and repurposing the throttle for the clutch. Due to that, one area I was going to look into was going with a rev counter style dash used in the latter models, and figured some reworking of the electronics would be required. It won't be all done in one hit, and I'll be staging it over a number of years to keep the budget under control.
It's a ~20% increase in torque and a ~30% increase in HP. It's more than enough to spin up the tyres and worth keeping under check when needed.
How are you planning to manage DBW for the throttle body set up? I recall Phil from Driftworks seeking to go that route on one of his cars, not an easy thing to set up at all. Do you actually have a donor car and engine yet?
DBW is a 'feature' within Haltech and Motec, and possibly others...yes, it does take time to understand it, but it seems 'straight forward' enough. Haltech has the components needed, many of which are from Bosch. What got me looking at DBW initially, apart from the TC, was the commentary about how there is a throttle response difference between the 2.7 and 5.2 variants, and possibly also a response 'delay' between left hand drive and right hand drive because of the longer route the throttle cable has to go. The 5.2 has a single MAF, the earlier 2.7 has twins, so if I'm changing the ECU, I can buy the 5.2 ( which in many cases is noticeably cheaper to start with ), and part of the build is to go to two MAFs, DBW and throttle response is sorted. That's also why I'm not looking for car that's 'perfect'....when the time is right, an F1 with 5.2 and needing an engine out service for a bucket load less than everything else would be right up my alley. All going to plan it will be a late 2025 or 2026 project.
I actually meant how are you going to coordinate the physical linkage system to open all 8 throttle bodies by DBW instead? It is a very fine balancing act as Phil is finding out. So this whole thing is basically theoretical then? You don't have a car or that spec 355 engine
It's all theoretical until it's done, but it has been done, I just haven't seen or talked to anyone that's done this to a F355. That's why I've asked if anyone else has done any of this yet on a F355
Eh.....the power doesn't come on until the higher RPM's. My DD is a Quadrifoglio, and I'm glad it has TC -- it is frightening in race mode. You can get in real trouble at low RPM's. But a 355, even with a warmed-up engine (and I think your power numbers above are quite optimistic) where the power doesn't come on until you're above 6k rpm's....your money, spend it how you like.
I agree the F355 power band doesn't really seem to need traction control very much. On our Quadrifoglio, I've always felt it needed a traction control setting between Dynamic and RACE. In Dynamic it's far too intrusive, and in RACE you are on your own. A "Dynamic Plus" mode would be perfect for me.
Normally, a (separate) TC controller acts on the injection signal. If traction is lost, one or more injection pulses are disabled until traction is regained. With our Motronic 5.2 there is an even more elegant solution. You can set the maximum RPM via CAN. The F1 TCU uses this when shifting gears. And in the later F360 CS, the originally implemented LC makes use of the CAN in the same way. So you might want to have a look at that. Egas (DBW) alone, on the other hand, is not suitable for traction control. The air path is far too laggy. This is more for drivers who drop the clutch at high RPM and let the electronics do the work. But even then, you need a fast control path as well and this is always either via the ignition or, better, via the injection. If I were you, I would look for an external TC and run it either via the injection or, as described before, via the Motronic CAN. Unless you have more plans and need a new engine ECU anyway.
Been working on this for my 348, and have run race cars with the Bosch systems so they are more motorsport flavor than enthusiast. In order of cost Bosh is expensive and you are tied into their sensors etc Continental have brought out a new system more features and user friend software at a slightly less cost point In the UK SCS Delta | Motorsport ABS make an entry level system In Germany you can get a BMW unit flashed with the motorsport firmware to suit any car configuration Race ABS MK60 Flashing and ECU Standalone - Race and Trackday Parts MADE IN GERMANY Or you can DIY a BMW system to standalone, MK60 MK60e1 and BMW MK60e5 out e46m3, BMW e9X chassis and BMW e9x m3 Most consumer level ECU's can run traction control these days, Link, ECUMaster, EMTRON, Haltech. Most pick the wheel speed up from the abs via can. The traction control strategy is based on torque reduction which can be injection/ignition/DBW based strategy. A more specialist set up than engine mapping. I would find some who has experience setting it up and use the ecu they are familiar with as that will save a lot of labor costs with the system set up. For throttle pedal Ferrari 360 or Honda sensor accelerator Ferrari 360 F430 196180 170038 65709100 32375 km | eBay Honda DBW Accelerator Pedal Sensor
That's not how any of that works. Try flooring your 355 exiting a corner at the limit at 6k rpm in 1st and tell me what it does. Try the same in 2nd or 3rd. Make sure there is a ton of run off when you do it as the car will swap ends quickly. Sure, in a straight line you don't need TC in a 355, but if you're going around curves and trying to power out of them it's pretty easy to get the rear end out of shape. That's what motorsport TC is built to allow - they usually have twin settings, one for allowed wheel speed difference and the other for the level of power reduction so you can fine tune corner exit. Some slip is good, a lot is bad. It's not at all about straight line, most good cars with warm tires won't spin them up in a straight line, but even a Miata has enough power to break the rear loose when cornering at the limit.
There's also the fact that though the power levels are noted at 6000 rpm, an engine with significant increases over stock at 6000 rpm clearly has a ramp-up of power before getting to 6000 rpm...
No, it sounds like the LSD is doing the job, and both tyres are breaking traction....hence why with the extra power, I'm researching motorsport ABS & TC.
If the LSD wasn't working I'd get the inside wheel spinning and the rear wouldn't break free as easily.
