again the vatican says why f owners are siners

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by ferrari 360 spider f1, Oct 5, 2007.

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  2. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 4, 2006
    Palos Verdes
    Full Name:
    Vince V
    Considering that the Vatican also dictates policies on birth control which is basically another human activity they do not participate in, I'd say they are once again showing how out of touch they are with life. This shows the effect of letting more non-Italians into the Vatican. An Italian pope would never have made such an idiotic comment.
  3. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    Fullerton, California
    Full Name:
    "Guidelines for the Pastoral Care of the Road"? :rolleyes:

    I only look to St. Enzo in these matters.
  4. BwanaJoe

    BwanaJoe Formula 3

    Oct 23, 2006
    Former Space Coast
    Full Name:
    Joe Burlein
    Actually it says, "...drivers are instructed not to use their cars as status symbols designed to make others envious..." Sounds like good advice to me. It should have also read, "Be secure/humble enough that material possessions do not cause you envy." Hmmm, matter of fact, I believe there is a commandment to cover that.

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    Victory Circle
    Full Name:
    Pretty funny from someone living in a Palace worth Billions

    Yeah, he's got all sorts of credibility with me ;(
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  7. 308328LOVER

    308328LOVER Formula Junior

    Sep 11, 2005
    Lenoir City, TN
    Full Name:
    Thomas Geer
    You know, . . . crap like
    this is so funny. God will
    definately take care of
    his butt when he gets to heaven.

    The main theme that everyone
    (including the Pope) seems to
    forget is this :

    God put Enzo Ferrari on this
    earth for one main reason.

    Ferrari Automobiles

    End of story . . . . .
  8. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

    Sep 25, 2006
    Full Name:
    His robe and hat cost more than my car. Not to mention the far more reaching a devastating issues facing the catholic church!!! Can you say multi-million dollar lawsuit settlements due to the demons put into positions of authority, and cover-up.

    I have little to fear, relatively speaking certainly. Give more than you take, and love more than you're loved.
  9. bwassam

    bwassam Formula Junior

    Jan 3, 2005
    North Bend, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Robert Wassam
    It seems to me that envy is one of the seven deadly sins.

    Considering the position of the pope, I would say that he is causing more envy than Enzo ever did.

    Bob Wassam
  10. pastmaster

    pastmaster Formula Junior

    Feb 5, 2006
    Alma, Michigan USA

    You said it Brother!!!

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  12. Darolls

    Darolls F1 Veteran

    Jul 2, 2003
    Full Name:
    Catholicism is becoming an oxymoron of a dictatorship.

    Re: Religion/Mussolini......different, but one-in-the-same!
  13. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
    Austin, TX USA
    Full Name:
    Don't toss the baby out w/ the bathwater!

    This is man's idiocy, not God's!

  14. darth550

    darth550 Five Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 14, 2003
    In front of you
    Full Name:
  15. VGM911

    VGM911 Formula 3

    Apr 8, 2007
    New Jersey

    I'm wondering if you devoted time to reading the document. I know that its length would discourage the casual reader, but it's really not fair to speak so vociferously against (or for) the positions taken in the document without having read it.

    If you really want to know what the document says, you'll have to read it.
  16. etip

    etip Formula 3

    Apr 4, 2004
    Washington State
    Full Name:
    I just got back from Rome and went to the Vatican. Both my wife and I laughed at how the Vatican is full of stolen art that they charge admission to see AND how there are gift shops all over the Vatican selling crap trinkets.... It's such a for profit business it's a joke....
  17. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
    Full Name:
    As a Roman Catholic myself i shake my head often. This is just another case of some of the stuff that they say just annoys me in my faith.

    I guess i cant go out during daylight hours, or out for dinner with my wife becacuse i make people envious...mmm, nice concpet....its my fault because the other is envious.

    I guess i will wait in the gates of hell with all my ferraris living a clean life, next to the Cardinal(s), Priest(s) that molested little children.
  18. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 4, 2004
    Full Name:
    Overblown reaction by many.
    All they are saying is; " thou shalt not be a poseur ".
    Drive it like you stole it and all will be forgiven ;)
  19. FarmerDave

    FarmerDave F1 World Champ

    Jul 26, 2004
    Full Name:
  20. quartermaster

    quartermaster Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2005

    Good to see you here, Farmer!

    On Topic: By converse reasoning, does this mean that the Pope blesses, say, a Ford Focus?
  21. X2BOARD

    X2BOARD Karting

    Apr 29, 2007
    I wonder how much the pope-mobile costs ?

    I really envy those... especially since I can't even try to buy one...hehe
  22. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 4, 2001
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    You beat me too it.
  23. SANguru

    SANguru Formula 3

    Jul 15, 2005
    Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    I guess no more track days and accepting other driver's wave-bys.. blue/yellow flag.. that's cool.. don't worry about it.. :D

    Drivers’ “Ten Commandments”

    61. In any case, with the request for motorists to exercise virtue, we have drawn up a special “decalogue” for them, in analogy with the Lord’s Ten Commandments. These are stated here below, as indications, considering that they may also be formulated differently.

    You shall not kill.

    The road shall be for you a means of communion between people and not of mortal harm.

    Courtesy, uprightness and prudence will help you deal with unforeseen events.

    Be charitable and help your neighbour in need, especially victims of accidents.

    Cars shall not be for you an expression of power and domination, and an occasion of sin.

    Charitably convince the young and not so young not to drive when they are not in a fitting condition to do so.

    Support the families of accident victims.

    Bring guilty motorists and their victims together, at the appropriate time, so that they can undergo the liberating experience of forgiveness.

    On the road, protect the more vulnerable party.

    Feel responsible towards others.
  24. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Uhhh... I assume you didn't bother to actually look at what the document says. Due to this thread, I decided to take a look for myself...

    I was actually a bit surprised at how well the document captured the various "real life" scenarios that have lead me to some variation of "He's going to hell." or "Go to hell, @$$hole!" ;) And even more surprising, it gave fairly reasonable explanations for why driving may lead people behaving like that (e.g., for some driving is an enjoyable escape, giving them a level of freedom and control that they don't have in their work life; but when in that mode of thinking, rules and other people on the road can become an infringement of that freedom, and lead to heated reactions, etc.).

    How many times have you or your friends or other F-chatters made observations such as:
    = Why are people so much more rude on the road than they would ever be "in person"?
    = Why do people act like you can't see them inside their little cars?
    = Why do people act like they own the road?
    = Do people have the right to put your life at risk because they are in a hurry?
    = What happens to "common courtesy" when people get behind the wheel?

    I've seen people intentionally run others off the road. Given the risks involved, that's not much different than putting a single bullet in a six shooter, spinning it around, and pulling a trigger next to their head. Both are worthy of a trip straight to hell, IMO.

    Basically the message of that part of the document is this:
    Driving is a wonderful thing; but for various psychological reasons, it leads people to some pretty bad behavior... even sinful behavior.
    Don't forget there's people in those other cars... and that you have a responsibility to those other people.

    Given the bible tells you its better to cut off your hand than to let it lead you to sin, there's a lot of people on this planet that would be far better off if they never owned a car and were never allowed to drive!
  25. Protouring442

    Protouring442 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 5, 2007
    Harriman, TN
    Full Name:
    One Stupid SOB

    I didn't read the Pope's Bull, but your comment made me think for a moment. First let me say, as a former Roman Catholic, I have no great love for the Papacy, or the Catholic Church in general.

    As for the comments you made, I think there is some truth to this idea that we should not use our cars, houses, or lifestyles to make others envious. Others may become envious, but we should not try to make them thus. There is, I believe, a difference.

    Properly, we should be just as proud of someone else for their possessions as we are for our own, regardless of whose possessions are the more rare or valuable. If I have a nice car, say my ASC/McLaren, and you have a 250GT California Spyder, I should not envy your car, but instead should be happy that God has blessed you with the means to acquire such an automobile. Just as, if the situation were to be reversed, and I had the California Spyder and you the ASC/McLaren, I should be grateful that God has blessed you with the means to acquire the ASC and should not look down on your “lowly” car.

    Further, I should not be “Proud” of my possessions. In this instance, what is meant by proud is smug or arrogant. The reason for this is the recognition that nothing I call my own is really my own as I can do nothing but possess it for a short period of time. Further, anything I have is given me, weather that be the item or the ability to acquire that item.

    Not to get to religious here, but I’ll explain a bit with this. If you are familiar with the New Testament, there is a passage in which it is explained that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to attain the Kingdom of Heaven. Ever wonder what in the world that means?

    In the days of Christ, cities were usually walled, with several large gates for people to pass in and out of the city. In the evening, to protect the city, those large gates would be closed, and only one or two small gates would be left open. Those gates had obstacles built into them making it very hard for anyone to get through. Frequently, only a couple of people could pass through at a time, and the only way to get a camel through was to unload all of the goods packed on it and then coax it through. This procedure was very difficult, and you had to risk loosing all of your goods as you coaxed the animal through, then carry them yourself a piece at a time. This passage was called “the eye of the needle.

    The Bible passage now makes much more sense; yes? We have to be willing to give up our goods; to leave them at the mercy of another. In other words, they are not really mine as such, but instead given me that I might be a good steward of them.

    Stewardship means that we are to take care of our possessions. After all, they are not ours. To abuse my possessions is to be disrespectful to the one that gave them to me. Just as we would feel disrespected if we gave a gift to a friend or relative, and they abused and ruined our gift.

    We also should not tempt others. My father used to tell me that, if I leave a hundred dollar bill sitting on the table and leave the room, knowing that you are in financial trouble and you take it, I am just a guilty as you as I knew you needed the money. Thus, we should not be braggarts. This tempts others to be like us so they can achieve the same status.

    Sorry I have rambled on here. As so many Christians don’t seem to understand their own religion, it gets quite a bad name for itself. Please, no one take this post offensively, it’s meant only to help anyone who might have one of those “Christian Neighbors” who looks, smells, and acts like a total jerk!

    Shiny Side Up!
  26. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    Dallas, TX, USA

    Uhh, if you are a Roman Catholic, shouldn't you at least read the document before you argue against it?!? Bizarre.

    The document NEVER says you are guilty because someone else is envious. It says, don't buy an expensive car FOR THE PURPOSE of showing off or making others envious. Since you didn't buy it for that purpose, you have no worries.

    The primary message of the doc is "Don't let the fun and power of driving turn you into an @$$hole."
    Well, they didn't say @$$hole ;), they said "may lead us to behave in an unsatisfactory and even barely human manner." (the bold is mine)
    Oh, and this observation: "Cars tend to bring out the “primitive” side of human beings, thereby producing rather unpleasant results." :D bwahahaha... did they ever get that right! :(

    As little more than a side note, they observed: "Cars particularly lend themselves to being used by their owners to show off, and as a means for outshining other people and arousing a feeling of envy."

    That reminds me of a recent conversation that I had with Rob about such an individual... he was pretty ticked when his expensive car didn't win a participant-judged car show that we were at... (in other words, he didn't get adequate envy from the crowd)... he even came over to me to get me to join in:
    HIM: (seething) "Can you believe that car won over yours? Ridiculous!"
    ME: (with a smile) "Well, I'd choose my car over his... but then, I'm biased."
    HIM: (exaggerating) "He didn't pay for his whole car what you paid for your interior. No way his car should win over yours."
    ME: (trying to be nice) "Well, he did do a much better job of cleaning his up for the show... mine's covered in bugs... I spent about 10 minutes cleaning it this morning."
    HIM: (thinking I'm some sort of financially challenged moron) "That doesn't matter. This whole thing has got to be rigged." Followed by some derogatory comments on the guy who won.
    ME: (trying not to laugh at the guy) "Actually, Xxxx is a really nice guy, who's been extremely helpful to a lot of the people here. And given the participant voting, it really doesn't surprise me OR bother me in the least that he won."
    HIM: (storms off in a huff)

    Obviously an extreme case... but really not all that uncommon. There's a lot of people who buy cars based on wanting to show off, to make their "friends" envious, or other "undesirable human behavior".

    I really don't see a problem with the Vatican calling us on such mis-behavior.
    In fact, I wish the world would actually read the document and act on it... the roads would be a much more pleasant place.
  27. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Oh, and I particularly enjoyed this observation:

    "The domination instinct, or the feeling of arrogance, impels people to seek power in order to assert themselves[8]. Driving a car provides an easy opportunity to dominate others. Indeed, by identifying themselves with their car, drivers enormously increase their own power."

    How many times have you seen people speed up or slow down just to prevent you from passing them?
    I've often wondered why it is such a thrill for people to have that power over others...
    "Ha, look, I'm blocking a whole line of cars now! They can only go as fast as I let them. Muahahaha!"

    After miles of such games, I have been driven dangerously close to running them off the road... its good for me to remember there are humans in that car... even if their behavior is "barely human".

    And that's one of the reasons I love my Ferrari... the power-trip @$$holes don't realize how fast I can accelerate from 60 to 90... I can usually pass them before they realize they left a tiny hole. In fact... they just become a nice excuse for why I need to downshift and blast that wonderful Ferrari engine music.

    So, hey... my Ferrari is actually helping to keep me from sinning!!
    So, its doubly worth the price if helps to keep me from going to hell!! ;)

    Buy yourself a Ferrari to keep the temptations of the road from damning your eternal soul!
    (whaddya think, should that be Ferrari's new tagline?... they can reference the Pope!) ;)

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