Age of 599GTB buyers

Dear oh dear... take off the Ferrari-tinted spectacles for just one second will ya......
The new Ferraris are designed by committee - that's obvious and THAT (in the form of my exagerrated post) is the point I'm trying to make.
Ferrari, in an effort to eliminate ALL compromises from the owner, are making increasingly souless cars.

Get into a Ferrari 512BB - a belligerent, heavy and difficult car to drive - but the payoff was an exceptionally beautiful car with racercar technology, and a glorious visceral experience that had no equal in it's time.
The NEW Ferraris have no penalty: they are comfy, easy, with big cabins, not too low, loaded with ASR etc - These are all good things BUT these same NEW Ferraris also have a MUCH smaller payoff: they sound poor (430 excepted), the styling is hugely unresolved and lacks beauty, no charisma and certainly no stylistic elegance, whilst involvement is being stripped out with F1 gearboxes, driver aids, etc etc...

Drive a manual F355 - rubbish skewed driving position, disorganised ergonomics, heavy gearbox and noisy.... it DEMANDS compromise BUT... and this is the real point - the F355 is a truly STUNNING shape - it's sex on wheels, a fabulously involving and transparent drive and makes a GLORIOUS noise.

There was a time when Ferrari demanded something from the customer in return for a senationally sexy, lithe, aspirational and thrilling sports car. That was when Enzo lead Ferrari not some commitee.
Now they demand nothing.... no compromise - so we get odd looking cars like the 599 - WHY?
Well that's easy:
QUESTION: Which group of people is the least likely to want to compromise to get a truly stunning involving car when they part with their $$$$$...
ANSWER: Over 40's.

The 599 is an old mans car.

 

Edit - to delete the post. This is kind of silly, particularly the demographic comments.

Why not admit it - I'm exchanging an F430 for a 599 because the 599 is more practical. Sometimes, it's nice to have a little trunk and that rear shelf. Even my F40 has a nice, big round place in front for my Depends and Ensure.

SAURON - The DARK LORD? Oh, come on.

Cheers, WILL - The OLD MAN

 

oK ok - My profile name is silly. (i'll change it).

The rest of the arguments are NOT.

Practicality??? How many 20-30 year old unmarried men give a F**K really? You're a case in point I'm afraid.

Just re-read your post - HA! it's even more emphatic - you have something racier in the garage already, as I predicted buyers of this car (the 599) would in my first post.

 

How about we reserve our judgements on whether its an old man's car until someone actaually drives the damn thing!

A question: Does an "old man's" car constitute a car with "boring" styling or a car with "boring" performance?

 

you're not trying to bring logic into this, i hope!

 

Hey now, this is a car that will "sell out" (read: 300 pre-ordered units). They'll sell as many as they make!

The target demographic is 50-65.

 

MurciBoy

I agree with most everything you say here especially the bit about the 355 sexiest v8 ever built IMO. Ferrari are losing their way on the design front.

QUOTE=Murcielago_Boy]Dear oh dear... take off the Ferrari-tinted spectacles for just one second will ya......
The new Ferraris are designed by committee - that's obvious and THAT (in the form of my exagerrated post) is the point I'm trying to make.
Ferrari, in an effort to eliminate ALL compromises from the owner, are making increasingly souless cars.

Get into a Ferrari 512BB - a belligerent, heavy and difficult car to drive - but the payoff was an exceptionally beautiful car with racercar technology, and a glorious visceral experience that had no equal in it's time.
The NEW Ferraris have no penalty: they are comfy, easy, with big cabins, not too low, loaded with ASR etc - These are all good things BUT these same NEW Ferraris also have a MUCH smaller payoff: they sound poor (430 excepted), the styling is hugely unresolved and lacks beauty, no charisma and certainly no stylistic elegance, whilst involvement is being stripped out with F1 gearboxes, driver aids, etc etc...

Drive a manual F355 - rubbish skewed driving position, disorganised ergonomics, heavy gearbox and noisy.... it DEMANDS compromise BUT... and this is the real point - the F355 is a truly STUNNING shape - it's sex on wheels, a fabulously involving and transparent drive and makes a GLORIOUS noise.

There was a time when Ferrari demanded something from the customer in return for a senationally sexy, lithe, aspirational and thrilling sports car. That was when Enzo lead Ferrari not some commitee.
Now they demand nothing.... no compromise - so we get odd looking cars like the 599 - WHY?
Well that's easy:
QUESTION: Which group of people is the least likely to want to compromise to get a truly stunning involving car when they part with their $$$$$...
ANSWER: Over 40's.

The 599 is an old mans car.[/QUOTE]

 

LMAO...!!! Does the F40 have a glove compartment to hold a bottle of Cialis...?

As an aside, I don't know if it matters, but there are plenty of "old men" out there who still like fast cars and racecars and drive like they're NOT on their way to the gentleman's club... Benny Caiola still tracks his 333 SP, right...? Isn't he pushing 70...?

Late last year, I attended two events here in the Southeast - one in South Carolina and one in Savannah, Georgia - and an elderly gentleman showed up to both in his 550. Now he could barely walk, but he drove to both events and even tracked his car in Savannah... Old men indeed.

 

*yawn*

I'm 23 and this 599 thread was one of the most boring ones ever. Not sure if it was the purpose(the 599) or the content.

I say we make a compromise: Lets not call the 599 boring(it is, but people's feelings are obviously hurt by that) lets call it "not exciting" *yawn*.

Partially related:

Murci boy:

All those in the know are aware that the Murci rocks. The less enlightened say "vulgar", we say "Exciting and completely necessary piece of political speech against 'The Man'!" You either *yawn* gotta step up the Murci support big time, or just be a little more tranquil. I'm reading your arguments and not really believing that YOU believe what your saying. Have some heart son! Make those who use the Murci name proud!

To end:

Fine fine, the 599 is still better than the 612, but *yawn* thats all it gets from this whipper snapper.

 

comments like "old man's car" usually emanate from "young men with no money and huge envy"

 

Your post was actually kind of embarrassing for Murcie owners, at least for me anyway.

The Murcielago is hardly a "completely necessary piece of political speech against The Man." It's really just a car, Rico.

 

Age is irrelevant.

The 599 is built for Americans. It's too big to use its performance on most Euro roads except maybe some motorways (freeways). Even our race tracks are too small for it.

The odd 599 European customer (or Asian Customer) is likely to be 50+ and looking to cruise in a car that will be relatively discreet. The performance will not get used to the max.

 

It's a highly specialized, limited production road car that was designed to be as close as possible to a race-car without actually being a race car, like the F50, and to a somewhat lesser degree the Enzo. That's why it looks the way it looks, inside and out.

I stated this in earlier posts.



Forza,


Cavallini

 

Are you writing fom Geneva?



Forza,


Cavallini

 

What is the point of this thread ?

G

 

I hope that comment wasn't intended as a response to me, as I was only directing my question at those who, in one way or another, implied the 599 as being an "old man's car".

I think theres a crucial distinction to be made between a "boring" car and a classy car: the GTB has an abundance of class, and very much a lack of "boring". That said, I totally agree with your statement.

 

I think I've changed my mind... I don't intend to bring in any logic to this topic

 

Very clever. A nicely disguised, but totally direct insult.

PULEAASE don't make me laugh - My apologies but I'm not in AWE of your superstar status on this board... I don't care how many Ferraris etc you own....

Oh - and a quick tip:
Be very careful whose opinion you write off, on the basis of "having no money." This is the internet - just because I don't publicise who I am or how much moolah ($$$) I have doesn't mean I'm on the breadline......

I'm diasappointed. A comment like that shows your TRUE quality.

 

Ok, now who's going to post a poll and lets see what the Fchat community thinks? So far, all we've done is step on each other's toes with opinions - let the Ferrari community speak...

Btw, I will have the money to buy a 599 and I would prefer a 550 or 575 instead, based on looks alone.

 

The SLR is long since forgotten, as is the CGT to most young eyes for the same reason you think the 599 isn't exotic enough.

I don't think the LP is making many waves now. To my eyes they overdid it. It looks almost Bangled.

You young men will see.


Forza,


Cavallini

 

Great point. Clearly, some of you don't have anything resembling a life if you are getting this uptight over a bunch of photos.

Let's not forget that this promises to be a 600 HP, FRONT MID-ENGINED car. Unlike some of you, I have talked to people who have driven the 612 in anger. They report that this "bloated fish" is one hell of a car on the track. It makes you wonder what a shorter wheelbase car will do.

Moreover, this will be a normally aspirated car. (This means that it doesn't have turbos for those of you who are a little dim witted.) While turbos are cool for the track, I personally don't care for them on the street.

However, I want to strongly encourage all you young bucks out there to bash this car unmercifully. Maybe if you trash talk it enough, I might be able to move up the allocation list!

Dale

 

Forget about that...

I see that you had a No-Go-tec 360...now that's a peice of crap. I'd rather drive a 3 wheeled Kia before I'd give those F**kers a chance to butcher any car I was a part of again.

Back to topic...

599...ehhhhh!
575...whopeede do
550.. That was a car!
550 Barchetta...that was something nice, unuseable, but nice.

F40.. Holy!

So I wouldn't compare the two. That's like comparing Paris Hilton to a porn star. They are both one in the same, we just see them differently in our own minds.

Just my 2 cents.

 

The 512BB was great as a weekend blast, and at the time it was Ferrari's volume V12, the same with the 512TR. From a design perspective it was simple, 2-dimensional, beautiful but simple and 2-dimensional.

But in building these limited use cars, Ferrari was only barely profitable on the road and they were losing on the track.

Clearly, the formula needed to change. Usher in LDM and the 550, 456 and 355. This was the first phase.

LDM is not designing anything by committee. He is very much like Enzo in his insistence on personal approval of all aspects of design and engineering. I recall when the 430 spider debuted to the press that he flew in via helicopter to make sure they used perspex on the rear window instead of regular plastic. This was after he was appointed to run Fiat as a whole.

Is that design by committee? I think not. LDM personally approved of the design for the Enzo over lunch based on a sketch drawn on a napkin. Is that a committee?

The older cars were great for what they were- weekend blast cars. But LDM knew the future was moving towards greater flexibility. Newer technologies opened the doors to levels of performance and practicality hitherto impossible for a Ferrari. This is the answer to your compromise premise.

Put RWD on a Murci or a Diablo then talk about "compromises", "driver's aids", and "demanding experiences." LOL

LDM saw these larger factors and pushed Ferrari to stay ahead of the curve. He brought in the brilliant engineer, Amedeo Felisa, and the rest is automotive history.

First under Felisa's watch was the 360 which has had a waiting list of two years for its entire life-cycle, something the 355 never approached. Perhaps it's not "compromised" enough. Hmmm.

Then, for the racing purist they offered the raw, "uncompromised" CS, which hit the bull's eye the way the F40 did.

Then came the unbelievable, ultra-extreme in every sense of the word, all-everything Enzo, for those like you who think Ferrari makes "old men's cars". LOL Notice that everyone still compares everything to an Enzo. The fact that most people will never see one let alone buy one is beside the point. The Enzo towers over every other Ferrari in every way. Perhaps it's too extreme for you and those who think like you. It's certainly a more extreme car than the Murci. In fact, it's closer to the Countach in extremity of design. Performance, of course, is equally extreme and towering, even in a straight line.

Along the way, they gave the 575 a few upgrades to make it sharper and harder and to stay ahead of the curve.

Then for the traditional Ferrari 4-seater they brought out the dynamically superior and understated beauty, the 612.

Now we have the 599, which is, to quote EVO who have actually seen the car, "ruthlessly modern," in every way.

Next, you can expect a CS-like version of the 430, then the hypercar.

But the important piece to remember with all recent Ferraris is that you can always turn off all the technology and gadgetry if you wish to have a "DEMANDING" experience, something you cannot do with your beloved Murci. Or, you can buy one of the older Ferraris for your weekend, two-hour blasts.

And all recent Ferraris have more racing technology in them than the 512 ever dreamed. They will also be driven more than any 512BB or 512TR owner ever drove their "demanding", brutal cars. Is there a reason for this? I wonder.

As I said, if the 599 is simply not your style, say so and let it be done. We all have tastes and aesthetic preferences, which is why we have so many different interpretations of the automobile.

But to criticize Ferrari's overall stategy, or even to call the 599 an old man's car, is silly, especially when you can't see the forest for the trees.



Forza,


Cavallini