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Age of vintage owners Poll, final attempt

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by lukek, Sep 9, 2005.

?

If you own a vintage car, what is your age?

  1. 18-28

  2. 28-38

  3. 38-48

  4. 48-58

  5. 58-68

  6. 68-100

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. vintageracer27

    vintageracer27 Karting

    Dec 9, 2004
    217
    Middletown, Maryland
    Full Name:
    Brian
    I'm 38 (only just, I hasten to add), and the Ferrari 246GT is 33. The 911 is 35. I suppose Speed Racer cartoons and early 70's European cars formed my lasting desires.
     
  2. sjvalin

    sjvalin Formula Junior

    Aug 31, 2004
    713
    Nevada County, CA
    Full Name:
    Steve Valin
    I"m 40. While I really like the Boxers and the 308s, the Daytona is the newest of the Ferraris that really turn my crank. I would love an early 50's Vignale bodied 212, or a 250GT TdF, Lusso, 410 or 400 Superamerica, etc. I would say the 50's and 60's European, and mainly Italian, cars have held the most appeal to me since I was 18.

    I have to admit, I am also a Bugatti admirer and love the mechanical design of those. The engines look like they were milled from solid chucks of aluminum. Awesome!

    -steve
     
  3. Ashman

    Ashman Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Sep 5, 2002
    27,913
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    John
    ArtS is right I think. The hot era for vintage cars tends to be the era when the current crop of people most able to buy the toys (generally age group from the 40-50's) drooled over when they were in high school. In other words, about cars from about 30-40 years old.

    You can see this from matching the decades with the vintage cars that were at their peak popularity:

    1950's: Brass and older classics to the 1920's. Cars from the 1930's, even high end cars, were considered just old used cars and could be bought very cheaply off of used car lots.

    1960's-70's: The rise of the Depression era classics. The Cords, Auburns, Cadillacs, the Duesenbergs etc. rose quickly in value and were considered the most desirable vintage cars to own. Earlier cars were still popular with the older set but their values had plateaued. Cars from the 50's and 60's were considered too modern and, like the decade before, were the unwanted used cars cluttering up used car lots. I know a friend in the early 70's who bought a 250 SWB for $3,500 in pretty reasonable condition (admittedly a distress sale) and another who nearly bought a Lusso for $8,000 in 1976. Earlier Ferraris were not particularly desirable although of course Ferraris have never descended into used car hell. They came close though, as this is when many 1950's Ferraris were scrapped, converted to Chevy power and otherwise not well taken care of.

    1980's: This is when the era of the 50's T-Birds and early Covettes, along with Chevy Nomads and big finned Cadillacs came into their own. Many of the American cars reflected the "Grease" era and chopped and channeled Mercurys were popular along with bone-stock sedans. The older Ferrari market came to life in the mid 80's and all Ferraris exploded in value in the late 1980's. During the late 80's lots of other European sports cars also rose in value, especially Jaguars and Aston Martins.

    1990's: The 50's cars continued in popularity and the early 60's cars started to become popular. Split window Corvettes, series one E-types, original Pontiac GTOs, the 1964 1/2 Ford Mustang, Shelby Cobras and Hertz GT 350 etc. Prices for Ferraris from the 1960's plummeted in value by as much as 75% from their insane 1989 peak, but that only meant that they were still pricey by the relative values of the day. Daytona coupes that had sold for $450K in 1989 could be had for $100K or even less. Real Daytona spyders that pushed $1MM in 1989 were down to "only" $300K in 1995.

    2000's: This is the time of the late 60's muscle car mania, where garden variety Camaros and Firebirds are in the $50-70K range, the COPO Camaros are over $100K and Hemi-Cuda Convertibles are, what? $400K+++. Ferraris are rising in value as well, particularly those from the 50's and 60's that are eligible for vintage rallies and events. The popularity of these retro-events has probably extended the peak value period for the older cars beyond what normally might be expected. For Ferraris in particular, we are seeing the realization that the production levels in those years truly was small and even the most popular models of the era had fewer than 1,000 examples produced, tiny by today's standards. The Daytona is considered to be the high volume Ferrari of the era, but even then there were not much more than 1,400 coupes produced.

    What is going to happen in the next 5-10 years? Maybe the formula is going to change, as the next logical era for the 40 and 50 year olds in the years 2010-2015 is the 1970's, but (IMO) the 1970's was generally a pretty crappy decade for most cars. Aside from some of the exotics, will there be much interest in the smog-strangled and 5 mph grafted on bumpers cars of that era? Will the teenagers of the 70's look back and still buy the exciting dream cars from the 1960's when they get to their peak earnings years in 2005 and beyond, or will they jump forward to the 1980s?

    For me, I am in my 40's (Forty-twelve to be precise) and I am true to form in that the Ferraris and sports cars of the 50s and 60s are the ones that most float my boat. I have a 1959 Turner that I use for vintage racing and, even though my 400i is 1983, I consider its front engine V-12 configuration to hark back to an earlier era.

    Lastly, those T-35 Bugattis and others from the 20s and 30s are actively raced in VSCCA in the U.S. and are surprisingly quick around the race track.

    John
     
  4. Miura Jota

    Miura Jota F1 Rookie

    May 26, 2004
    3,610
    Toluca , Mexico
    Full Name:
    Martin
    I was born in 1971 but I've always been fascinated by 60's cars
    Miura,Karmann Ghia & Mustangs etc.
     
  5. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2003
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    Scott
    That era is the most interesting to me as well...before even Ferrari became somewhat standardized. IMO, design maturity for Ferrari was reached and peaked in the '60s but the '50s individuality, range, and quirkiness was gone. I guess the painted metal dash and Nardi wheel in my 330 2+2 will have to do as a link to that era.

    The first Ferrari I ever saw in the metal was a tired-out '56 Boano 250GT on a used sports car lot here in Dallas in 1965...asking price $2,995.00. I remember it like yesterday...even down to the s/n plate with the horse on it.(unfortunately, I don't remember the number). That's where the my early Vintage fascination started.
     
  6. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
    9,047
    CHNDLR
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Dang, we're looking like a bunch of geezers already...


    At our local Italian Concours in Seattle this last weekend I found out some valuable info on how collector's cars will not be affected by clean air legislation.

    In the State of Washington, any car over 25 years old qualifies as a collector car, meaning you never have to take a smog test, you register plates once and never have to pay annual registration fees BUT you must promise not to use it as a daily driver. THye will issue you special plates or if you can find correct year, "period" plates they will transfer that over to your car AND you do not have to have a front license plate.

    Isn't that civilized?
     
  7. macca

    macca Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2003
    676
    #32 macca, Sep 9, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  8. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
    13,234
    Never home
    Full Name:
    Dr. Dumb Ass
    I asked Spicy about the Bug over dinner, she said no. :(
     
  9. bill365

    bill365 F1 Rookie

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,319
    Chicago area
    Full Name:
    Bill
    I guess we are showing the extent of our experience :D

    I first contracted the vintage bug when I was about 12. I lusted for a Seeley-Matchless G50 that I saw in a vintage bike book that I was given. When I was 14 I bought a '54 AJS, I still have it 37 years later.


    That is quite civilized, Illinois is not quite so generous, but they do have a reduced registration fee ($5.00 / yr) and no exhaust sniffing. They also want to restrict everyday use.

    Bill
     
  10. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
    Full Name:
    Kenneth
    I have Illinois AV plates on my car. Vanity costs $55 every 5 years (as opposed to $78 a year for regular, non vanity). No emissions but I *think* I'm supposed to have a front plate. So far, no one seems to care.

    Ken
     
  11. bill365

    bill365 F1 Rookie

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,319
    Chicago area
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    Bill
    OOPS! They must have raised the price again, while I wasn't looking. D*MN!!
     
  12. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Owner

    Aug 1, 2002
    17,960
    San Marino, CA
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    L. Wayne Ausbrooks
    Drool...
     
  13. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 Veteran
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    Oct 31, 2003
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    Scott
    In Texas, any car over 25 yrs. old is exempt from emissions tests. If you want to street drive your classic regularly, you have to pass safety inspection, including front seat belts, and renew registration yearly, just like any older car. You can use car year matching vintage plates for a small extra fee...I have a superb set of '64 Texas plates I got off ebay before my car arrived here. If you register your car as an Antique, you get special Antique plates and don't have to pass any inspections or do yearly reg renewal, but you can only drive in parades, to and from car-related events, etc.

    If I'm not mistaken, front-plate requirements in TX phase out this month. I've never had one on my Ferrari and never been stopped for it.
     
  14. sjvalin

    sjvalin Formula Junior

    Aug 31, 2004
    713
    Nevada County, CA
    Full Name:
    Steve Valin
    An interesting bell curve so far. It does surprise me that the curve isn't shifted up in age a bit more. I thought I was one of the youngsters into this era of car, but I see that I"m in the norm!

    -steve
     
  15. GTSguy

    GTSguy Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2004
    615
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    Luke, I can't help but suspect that your poll results reflect age related internet use dynamics more than true ownership demographics. The question is also subject to a broad definition of 'vintage'. I suspect that pre 1960 cars belong to an older crowd than cars from 1960-66.

    I'm 50 and my oldest car is 92 years old. I think that today's best car buys may be in the pre-war category (due to the things you note). There's nothing like tufted leather, wood wheels and pin stripping! Of course, who knows what will happen to these cars' values over the coming years? In the end its the cars that matter most - not the money.
     
  16. eurperules

    eurperules Formula Junior

    Jan 25, 2005
    615
    belgium
    Full Name:
    stijn quintyn
    i'm 23, and my car is 27
    i've always preferred classics, just don't have the cash to back up the real exotics...
     
  17. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 Veteran
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    Oct 31, 2003
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    Scott
    I'm truly surprised that the peak of the curve is the age notch down from mine(48-58), and that the 28-38 age group has an equal number of owners as the 48-58. This definitely disproves some of my previous assumptions.
     
  18. Kram

    Kram Formula Junior

    Jul 3, 2004
    867
    Park bench, Canada
    Full Name:
    Mark
    #43 Kram, Sep 9, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I’m 50 now and the 250 GT is 45, but I bought it when I was 24. At the time new cars were all about emission controls and bumpers - and the price was wicked. On top of that it looked fantastic so I couldn’t say no. Cars of the ‘70s were terrible. I thought so then and with few exceptions I haven’t changed my mind. I’ll never forget renting a Ford LTD in ‘77 and being amazed to see that most of the spedo was blank. Some legislator had decided that showing more than 55 or 60 on the dial would induce people to speed, so the spedo just had no numbers after the double nickel. On top of that it wouldn’t go and it looked ghastly. For a time even Ferraris had blank spedos. No, if you loved cars at the time you had to look back to the 60’s or earlier to find something that worked - and looked beautiful.
    On the Bugatti front the car is a stunner. It appears that someone has added an electric starter (no bad thing) but otherwise left it alone. I hope you get it. They can be fun. I was once lent a 51 for an afternoon, and that was wild.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  19. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    Aug 1, 2002
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    San Marino, CA
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    L. Wayne Ausbrooks
    Heh, heh. I'm in no danger of that happening anytime soon. Believe me, my eyes are MUCH bigger than my wallet. Just dreaming and drooling...
     
  20. Shortshifter

    Shortshifter Rookie

    Apr 11, 2005
    7
    The first Ferrari road test I ever read was the 1967 330GTC road test in Car and Driver. I was 14 and it warped me thoroughly. I now have the identical car that I own in partnership with a frequent poster so add a couple of 52 year olds to the poll.

    P.S. I also recently bought a copy of said '67 Car and Driver on ebay. I was nearly as excited to get the mag as the car so maybe this old car thing is more about revisiting those hopes and dreams.

    '77 308GTB, '98 550M, '67 330GTC
     
  21. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2004
    2,069
    Full Name:
    Jim
    While there will always be a few young people who love cars that were made before they were born, most men love the cars that they lusted after when they learned to drive or were college age and couldn't afford them.

    There was a recent article in Octane, I believe, that addresses this, using as an example the fact that when the older writer first learned to drive the most valuable cars were the brass era ones, which were owned by guys who were in their peak earning years and could finally afford them. Most of those guys are now "pushing up daisies" and the cars are therefore worth less.

    the same pattern will probably repeat in the future.
     
  22. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 Veteran
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    Oct 31, 2003
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    I read C&D and R&T road tests all through the '60s...the memorable one in relation to my Ferrari was the Ferrari 330 2+2 VS Pontiac 2+2 C&D test, and seeing and hearing a new 4-headlight 330 2+2 very similar to mine implanted the virus for good.

    I need to look for an original C&D with the 330 2+2 article...it's probably not cheap.
     
  23. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jan 5, 2002
    18,914
    Portland, Oregon
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    Don
    I still remember the C&D column by David E. Davis describing his teenage adventures in a 250TdF. I think that column started me off in my love of vintage Ferraris.

    Incidentally, the column (and lots of other great Ferrari content) is in a collection of his, "Thus Spake David E." He has plenty of faults, but he experienced and wrote about some amazing stuff. The column about riding with the Ferrari test drivers is worth the price of the book alone, as is the early 60s column about driving a 250LM from Philadelphia to NYC in the middle of winter.
     
  24. lukek

    lukek Formula 3

    May 2, 2003
    2,046
    San Francisco
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    LK
    An amazing set of perspectives and data points. And yes, this poll is probably skewed by the "net participation factor".
    I have read the SportsCarMarket article that proposed that 1974 marked the end of collectible cars. Maybe they are right. But there will be exceptions: Testarossa, 1st or 3rd gen Rx-7, early pocket rockets, Vettes, etc. For me, the 80s mark the beginning of another trend: loss of national identity. With the platform sharing, mega mergers, brand marketing, and all the other tricks, one can no longer feel distinct differences in character. OK....OK....they are not as pronounced, and neither is the difference in reliability.
    I will probably remain a little schizophrenic. I plan to always have a modern and a vintage exotic.
    Keep voting. (Vintage is defined the same as the thread sections on fchat)


    PS. Love the Bugatti detour !


    And....I am 38, and Ferrari is 42, the Maser is a toddler at 3
     
  25. DBR328&330

    DBR328&330 Formula Junior

    May 31, 2001
    605
    Winchester, VA
    Full Name:
    Daniel Reese
    Both my 330 GT 2+2 and I are 39 years old.

    The "poster" cars from my youth (those that we buy now) were BBs, Countachs and 308. I guess that is why my first Ferrari was a 328. I went back in time with the 330. I wanted a car about as old as me.

    I think mid 60s Ferraris are best- no more overdrive, has disc brakes, and bigger engines yet no federal regulations yet.

    Dan
     

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