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Ah man, 328 start problem, and I just got it back from a major service!

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Auraraptor, Mar 14, 2004.

  1. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
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    My car never had starting issues before. I just got it back from a complete major. First, trying to get it out of the truck it took nearly 20 tries to start the car up. After it was running I took it for a spin. I tried starting the car, and all I hear is a buzz.

    Great, just great. I already left Justin at WWOC a message telling him the car now doesnt start. It doesnt even turn over in any sense.

    *Sigh* Any thoughts on what the problem is?
     
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  3. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Going back to my brit bike days, it three things to make that thing go bang.

    1. Compression
    2. Spark
    3. Gas

    Assuming that compression is good, your problem is either spark or gas.

    Because the motor is not even turning over, my guess is spark. Based on your buzz sound, my further guess is that the starter solenoid is not engaging the starter motor. Back in my shade tree days, we used to take a hammer and tap on the solenoid part to free it up. (Actually, we used the beat the crap out of the thing, but I digress.)

    But that was yesterday. If this happened to me today, I'd hang it up and call the shop first thing in the am.

    Dr "No mo grease under my fingernails" Tax


     
  4. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    Thanks for the quick reply Doc! Its this type of thing that makes me wonder about ferrari ownership sometimes. :'(
     
  5. tifosi69

    tifosi69 Formula 3

    Dec 23, 2003
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    Al-Al Cool J
    You need to raise HELL with whomever did the service that's for sure!
     
  6. chaa

    chaa F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2003
    5,058
    It does when you payout a small fortune for a service. You will smile again when its all running right and stood gleaming in ya gararge.
     
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  8. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    That is what I was intending on doing. I looked forward to this date for over 2 weeks now. *sigh* Honestly, I am really dislikeing cars at the moment, which for those who know me know is a rare thing for me to say.
     
  9. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    Sep 18, 2002
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    Don't be so quick to jump to concluesions that it's the shops fault. Somtimes things like this do happen. I have experienced myself. Customers picks up car..all is well..then somthing decides to go for a walk soon after the car is returned. Remember a mechanic does not have x-ray vision. If the car started and ran while it was in his shop then everything to the mechanic will seem fine. A mechanic cannot fix what aint broke!!. If it turns out to be the starter motor,then that is not the shops fault that it decided to break at tha particular time. During the major service of the car the machaninc does no need to go anywere near the starter at all. So it seems to me it was a component that was on it's way out anyway and the failure would have happened sooner or later. Just be glade it happened at your house and not at the gas station with everybody watching.

    Tom.
     
  10. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Well, I don't want to step into in (then shut your mouth, you say), but I don't know that a starter rebuild is something that would normally included in a major.

    But if you want to try something, if a Ferrari solenoid works like a Ford or a Dodge or a Chevy, it normally sits in a withdrawn position. When you hit the starter switch, this sends juice to the solenoid, and it pops out and engages the starter motor. When you let go of the key, the juice cuts to the solenoid and it retracks into its housing.

    When you hear a buzzing and nothing else, what's happening, I think, is that the solenoid is turning over, but for some reason it is not engaging the starter gear. Perhaps it got misalined during the major. Who knows.

    This is why tapping the damn thing will sometimes free it up. Don't ask me how I know this, but I have a repressed memory of a rainy night in Georgia with the truck stopped at a gas station, me under it with a flash light and a hammer, my hippie chick girl friend hiding under the dash, while the Bubbas watched from the gas station saying things like long-haired hippie ***got and how they'd show my girl friend what a real man was like, while they chewed Red Man and scratched their nuts. Man, it sure felt good with that starter finally caught.

    You know what else? I sure had my fun during my hippie days, but I'm really glad that that I have moved on to become a wannabe rich republican. I made a promise to my Maranello when I brought that I'd never come near it with a wrench. It sure is nice to have an AMEX card and a AAA membership.

    Dr "I'm a driver, not a fighter" Tax




     
  11. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    No I have nothing against the serivice dont get me wrong, nor did I say the shop is/was at fault, I did complain about the car though :p. I just would hope that they could find something like this while it is still there.

    When they were taking it out of the truck it wasnt starting and took a number of tries. I can only assume that if it is not starting well here on every attempt, it was doing the same there. I never had this issue before, for every time I turned the key the car would start up. I was hoping a good run would clear it up but no it didn't. What is frustrating to me is that it now I have to arrange again to have it taken to the shop, while if it was there in the first place they could have taken care of it, no worries for me.

    I obvisously like the shop, as its going back to them! :p
     
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  13. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    I have noticed that many times cars that are in the shop for a significant period of time (two or more weeks)...can end up with a dead battery. There were marginal to begin with, and sitting for a long period just finished them off. Have you tried jump starting?
     
  14. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    Thanks for the reply Dave, I thought of this, and am hoping that is the route issue, and currently have it attached to a trickle. I am going to check the battery connections as well as the 'quick release/disengage' plug later in the evening when I re-attempt to start it. I want to give the tricle a few hours to do its job.

    BTW Dave is it normal for the water temp to fall while driving? Mine does a little (it goes back to the 8o'clock position from the normal 6 o'clock) I thought it was a bad thermo, so I installed a new thermo + coolant flush but that didnt do anything. WWOC didnt catch any leaks in the system either. Is it just normal on 328s?
     
  15. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    It is normal for the coolant and even the oil temp to drop once under way. Don't sweat it. Obviously the radiator and oil cooler are more efficient while under way, then stopped. Plus, it will drop more right now, it is still very cool out this time of year.
     
  16. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    Oh ok, thats good to know. I had a similar issue with my NSX and it was a faulty thermo, so I guessed it was the same deal here.
     
  17. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
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    Sure sounds like battery to me too.
    Hope so. That way you'll be up and running in no time.
    Good luck
    Philip
     
  18. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    BTW, if you do get it started, and determine it was a drained battery, I would be inclined to put it on a "load tester" and see if it still has sufficient capacity, otherwise, ditch it, before it leaves you stranded.
     
  19. zebra308

    zebra308 Formula 3

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    Omar,
    What do the letters WWOC mean?
    Thanks,
    Will
     
  20. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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  21. murph7355

    murph7355 Formula 3

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    Feel your pain - this happened to me 3 times! Wasn't so much a buzzing as a "machine gun" rasp type sound. Was staggered that it was the battery as was sure it'd be something more serious.

    Quick way to see if it is the battery is to jump it from another car (jump leads between a running car and yours). If this works, it's almost certainly the battery.

    After being charged up, mine would run for a few days and then die again, despite having a new battery fitted (FOC by the dealer).

    Turns out that the alternator wasn't earthing properly and was only kicking out 12V (needs to be 14V or better to run the car and charge the battery). Cleaned up earthing point and (touch wood) it's now fine.

    I'm sure it'll be nothing more serious than the above, and you'll smile when it's running again. P*sses you off at first, but all people are fallible and when you next get it to the red line, it'll all be worth it.
     
  22. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    It started up! (sorta)

    It took two cranks. Both times it sounds HORRIBLE starting up. The second time it was like something was sweaking horrible and screeching. I checked the terminals and the quick disengager and it they looked ok. Later tonight when I have more time I will look into the problem more, I am not losing dinner reservations over this car.
     
  23. murph7355

    murph7355 Formula 3

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    Could the fan belt be too tight? Screeching type noises are often from this area of the car.

    Might also suggest why it never started - if there's something wrong with the fan belt, the alternator wouldn't charge the battery...does the red ignition light come on the dash when it's running? (Not foolproof as mine wasn't coming on despite it not kicking out enough juice).

    Sounds like a call to your garage would be advisable.
     
  24. zebra308

    zebra308 Formula 3

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    Thanks Dave,
    I wasn't sure where WWOC was located.

    Omar,
    Your profile indicated Baltimore, Md. There's a small shop in Balto. DiFatta Bros. that does service on Ferrari's. If you don't get a positive response from WWOC, you may want to try them. I don't have their # handy but they are in the local phone book. If you need the # let me know.
    On another note, I think it's your battery( I HOPE). I used to go through a battery a year until I got a battery tender, best $33.00 investment I've made.
     
  25. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior

    Nov 27, 2003
    434
    If it makes you feel better, all cars do this (break down) regardless of whether they're a Ferrari or a Pinto.

    -Wayne
     
  26. DGS

    DGS Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I know WWOC is a tad inland, but leaving the battery connector off for a while in a humid climate can lead to corrosion. Have you tried cleaning the contacts? What looks like a good connection sometimes isn't. (I had an issue on my 328 where it wouldn't start when the connector got warm (classic dead battery symptoms), but was fine when it was cold. A bit of electrolyte gel fixed it.)

    A screeching sound might also be a loose alternator belt, a misaligned alt pulley (common on 328s) or a siezed alternator (WWOC missing a small tool?). It might be something as simple as the alt belt tensioner wasn't tightened enough and came loose.
     
  27. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Omar, what's the story on your car. Did I miss the end of this story?

    Just curious, DrTax
     
  28. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    Sep 25, 2002
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    I called WWOC and they are going to come pick it up and take it to get fixed...again. I don't really mind too much, as well it snowed the next day after my last post in this thread...a lot, so it's not like I could drive it anyway.

    They are picking it up on Saturday, and are going address the start issue, go over and patch up stone chips on the car. Fix a patch under the rear bonnet where the paint has split and exposed the bare metal to prevent rust, and most importantly take out the various interior parts and ship them to Valence so I can get CF parts interior tirm made! (see this thread: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10394)

    They (WWOC service) tell me it shouldnt be more then $1000, though I am planning on it costing $2500 to account if something important is broken and needs replacement (starter, alternator etc)

    I have no idea how much the CF parts will cost, we will see on that one.
     

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