Air Conditioning compressor

ditch the york and go with a sanden.

 

If you plan to remove the compressor yourself, replacing the shaft seal is very straight forward. Use the the link below for the rebuild. BTW, stay with R12.

http://ferrari.cdyn.com/carl_rose_docs/Ferrari%20328%20AC%20Recharge.pdf

 

My '88 also has a leak at the compressor seal, and I have rebuilt it several times with various currently-available seals - all to no avail. It holds the R12 charge no problem and blows cold, but has a very slow drip of refrigerant oil from the seal. (Easy to mistake for a coolant leak since the refrigerant oil dye is fluorescent green.). The most recent seal I installed has been in there for about four months, and over that time has leaked a little over an ounce total. The compressor continues to blow cold, so rather than rebuild it with the same type seal (again) I'm just monitoring the leak over time to ensure that the oil level doesn't get too low or the rate doesn't start to increase.

If you compare the design of the seals on the market today with the original design seals they are very different. Differences include the total spring preloaded, the uniformity of the spring pressure, as well as the amount of seal area. There are also some potential leak paths that didn't exist with the original design.

Does anybody have a specific seal brand recommendation that they have had recent success with?

 

Is there a direct x-ref part number for the Sanden scroll pump that will bolt up? Thanks.

 

The link is dead for me, might be my location though. Any alternatives?

Thanks,

Jack.

 

See the parts cross reference thread and buy new. Several folks on here have tried to rebuild the unit and all to no avail. They all leak again.

You should be able to find a new replacement unit for ~$300.

 

I believe the York units are available through Napa for less than $200. Remove your cluth from the old and install on new and you are set.

 

There are no "new" York units. York sold the design to a Chinese company some years ago. (Search and you'll find the link to the current service manual, which gives the manufacturer information.). Talk to any A/C specialist who knows these units and they'll tell you that the Chinese units have nowhere near the quality of the original York units - particularly in the area where tight tolerances are important (i.e., seals!). When I tried the Chinese unit it leaked worse (straight off the shelf) than what I started with...

 

I put a York on my 308 a couple of years ago, got it at the local parts store for about $150, no problems.... so far.

 

Sanden is not a bolt on revision.........to replace the York.

Take care of your York clutch, Ferrari only part and expensive

 

Hi Lino,

Rebuilding the original A/C compressor main seal doesn't always work (as others have correctly stated, the seals don't always seem to hold for long). It may be cheaper in the long run just to get a new compressor. Since I wanted to keep my car stock (and really didn't want to change out my hoses and fittings at this time) I got a new York-style compressor from Action Air for $249 (price as of summer 2010). This is for a BRAND NEW TCCI compressor (TCCI bought the rights to manufacture these from the old, now out of business York company). The model number that fits both the 328 (as well as the 308) is ER210R. The Action Air site lists this cross-referenced to the TCCI model ER210R-25200. For reference, Action Air's internal part number is 20-10334. Info for the compressor at ActionAir (also known as Omega Air) is

http://www.action-ac.com/AC-Part/20-10334.html

Their phone number is (972) 812-7475.

This is quite a bit cheaper than a new compressor at most other places, and is actually in par with a rebuilt unit from NAPA. Since you can get a NEW compressor for the price of a (potentially questionably) rebuilt unit it's a no-brainer in my humble opinion. Especially since it is a high-quality compressor, and appears much more well-built than some of the other non-OEM compressors that are sold at various parts places.

I talked extensively with the TCCI sales representatives, and indeed this is physically the same as the original York model except for the internal displacement which is actually slightly larger (10cu displacement vs. the original 6cu). It's built to even better internal tolerances and specs than the original York (nee Aspera) unit. See

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136100907&postcount=8

for more info on the compressor nomenclature. The factory standard 308/328 used Rotalock fittings and Right-hand suction. This is what you want unless you are changing to a rotary-type compressor which WILL require different fittings on your hoses (and a different compressor). The displacement increase should make this more efficient to run. It mounts to the old brackets without any problems. You will need a couple of 2-inch SAE bolts for the lower mounting points

(see Carl Rose's excellent article http://ferrari.cdyn.com/carl_rose_do...20Recharge.pdf)

A couple points.

1) The Action Air compressor only comes in black. It's very easy to paint it silver (I used a can of dull-grey/silver engine spray paint from PepBoys which matched the original quite nicely). Brake cleaner, a rag, and a little rubbing takes the old black finish off really quickly. Mask off the suction & discharge ports, paint, and you'll be good to go.

2. If you are planning to use R12 you WILL need to to change the oil in the compressor. Virtually all of these including all recently manufactured TCCI compressors now come pre-filled with PAG oil which, while miscible (compatible) with and does not chemically react with the old Mineral oil and Ester oils, it reacts very badly when in the presence of R12 or other chlorinated refrigerants. The chemical reactions and resulting acids WILL eventually destroy the lubricating properties of the PAG oil. Not a good thing (see http://www.autofrost.com/hotshot/index.html for example) since you want your compressor and A/C system to last a long time. These York-style compressors have a sump that contains most all of the oil versus rotary compressors that mostly rely on the oil mixed with refrigerant to lubricate the compressor. There are two fill ports on opposite sides of the TCCI compressor. Remove one, drain the 14oz of oil from the compressor sump, and refill with 14oz of Mineral oil. I did this twice, rotating the compressor shaft a few times to clear out any remaining PAG since I kept my system R12. Refill with 14oz of Mineral oil, put the old plug back in and you're good to go. The fill plugs have O-rings and don't need to be tightened more than 'snug'. Read the service manual on the TCCI website for more info (http://www.ccicompressor.com/compressors-2cylinder.php).

If you are switching to R134a the PAG oil is fine. Just make sure to flush out any old Mineral oil from your A/C lines before you vacuum and fill the system with refrigerant.

3. You will have to remove the old Rotalock fittings from the old compressor and move them to the new compressor since the new one does not come with new fittings. Get new teflon seals for the fittings at NAPA (they're only about 50 cents each). These are teflon O-rings about an inch in diameter. You'll need 2 (one each for the suction and discharge). The TCCI compressor I received actually had these seals on it but it's not bad to have a few spares at this price.

4. You should always replace the receiver/dryer/accumulator whenever opening your A/C system. I found a very low cost source at AC Kits (Arizona Mobile Air). The part number is 37-13293, and as of July 2010 their price was $10.92 each. Much cheaper than anywhere else I could find, and it's the correct part. You may need to order a new pressure switch that screws into the top of the filter/drier. I'll look up the part number for the pressure switch tonight (along with the seals for the Rotalock fittings) and post them for posterity. BTW, the first time I ordered this receiver/drier it actually came with a switch. When I ordered a couple extra spares after my compressor blew its main seal the receiver/driers did not come with a switch. Also, the switch on my car's original filter/drier was integrated into the cannister and could not be re-used with the new receiver/drier. Info for Arizona Mobile Air is (ackits.com) and their phone number is (602)233-0090). Nice folks, very knowledgeable, and willing to help answer questions. Remember to add an ounce of the refrigerant oil you are using (Mineral or Ester for R12, PAG or Ester for R134a) into the receiver/drier before installation (directly into the input our outlet, or into one of the A/C lines that connect to it (again, see Carl Rose's article).

5. The old Ferrari-specific clutch fits directly on the new compressor. As others have mentioned, don't lose this as it's made of unobtanium.

Hope this helps.

Ciao,

Vincent

P.S. I found out that the PAG oil that is currently installed in TCCI compressors is double-end-capped (DEC) PAG, the good stuff. Non-DEC PAG oils have an affinity to alcohol and as such can cause corrosion when any bit of water is in the A/C system. Vacuuming the system removes the water vapor, hence doing this is critically important, especially in R143a systems that use PAG oil as a lubricant.

 

York isn't out of business, they make huge industrial chillers....they are out of automotive lines maybe.....

Sorry, thanks for the rest of the info!!!!!!

I had a shop threw away one of my units, I was mad as he11, lost the clutch in that manner.....all it needed was the reed valve kit.......high heat environment the way the 308GTB mounts the unit....

 

Lots of the York clutches are lying around, now as the Sanden conversion occurs, Moorespeed probably has a box of them in the corner!!!!

 

Fantastic post Vincent. thank you!

 

+1.

 

Hi Lino,

After noticing that you have a Mondial-T I realized that you likely have a Sanden/Sankyo compressor (model SD708 or SD709) and not a York-style unit. Check the label to be sure. If so this is 7-piston, 8 or 9cu displacement compressor that is much newer and physically different than the York-style compressors in a 308/328. Probably better in some regards too (lighter? more efficient?, shinier?) although they still apparently use Yorks in large trucks so they can't be all that bad. Take a look at the Sanden site (www.sanden.com) and download the service manual (under their support section) and see if this looks like your compressor. There's some good info there. There are many places that sell these compressors and it looks like the major (only?) differences are the hose connections and the clutch mechanism that comes on it. I googled Sanden SD709 and came up with many links showing prices less than $300, which not too bad considering what it would cost if you got it in a yellow box with a black horsey ($$$$). You may be able to reuse your existing clutch w/pulley and save some money getting one without a clutch. In any case the previous remarks about R12 and R134a still apply. If the main seal (near the pulley) is bad, then, yes is is possible to replace it although there may be the same longevity issues as seen in the York compressors. Virtually all of these main seals use carbon/carbon mating surfaces with extremely fine tolerances so installation/alignment is critical as is cleanliness.

If your old compressor is toast (e.g., bad piston) and its not just a bad main seal then you really need to flush out all of the junk in the lines before installing any new components. Otherwise your new compressor will self-destruct in a very short time from all the junk left in the system. Don't flush through the evaporator, expansion valve or orifice tube - these have very small openings and get clogged easily. Just open the lines and flush them with an appropriate flushing fluid. It's low-cost insurance.

Now, for posterity and for those still using the York-style compressors in their 308/328s :

The part number for the A/C pressure switch (located on the receiver/drier) from Arizona Mobile Air (ackits.com) is 29-30703 if you are using R12, and 29-30703-3 if you are using R134a. Their price shows $20.08 as of September 2010 which is what I paid a few months ago. The original switch on my old 'Made-in-Italy' receiver/drier had hard-wired connections instead of detachable spade-type connectors. It also had a different thread diameter/size so it wasn't possible to physically mount the old switch to the new receiver/drier. However, it's very easy to cut the old leads and crimp/solder on two new (0.250") Female connectors to fit onto the two male connectors on the new switch. For what it's worth, its just a simple low-pressure on/off switch that won't allow the compressor to run when the system is low on refrigerant to keep it from burning up. Since these switches don't seem to go bad very often you can just swap out the receiver/drier and reuse the switch as I did. There are probably lots of other places that sell these very same switches as well as the receiver/driers but they had them in stock at a low price - two of my main criteria http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif.

Also I noticed that the new receiver/driers, although apparently still made by Parker, don't have sight-glasses on them as previous versions did. Probably a cost-cutting measure, but it does mean that you will have to rely on pressure gauges and/or accurate measurement of refrigerant when you add it to your A/C system. The labels on the new receiver/driers I bought were different from the original Parker units but I noticed they were just stuck on top of, lo and behold, actual Parker labels. In any case what matters in a receiver/drier is that the physical size cannister is the same (e.g., internal VOLUME), that it mounts to the existing Ferrari band-clamp, and that the inlet/outlet sizes, threading and configuration are the same. According to the Arizona Mobile Air people the internal dessicant used in these (XH-7) is compatible with both R12 and R134a which makes life easy if you want to switch refrigerant types.

The teflon seals for the Rotalock fittings are available from Napa auto parts. The NAPA part number is TWD MEI5576. This is for a box of 20 seals but they sold me a few at the parts counter for $0.50 each. When I was looking for them I learned they are also sold (along with York-style compressors) at various trucker supply companies, e.g., http://truckerac.com sells them under Part number 16-4018, 1/2" (#8) x 5/8" (#10) white teflon square cut gasket).

If you change out the teflon seals remember to put a drop of refrigeration oil (Mineral, Ester, or PAG as needed) on them before tightening up the connectors. If you can find it, Nylog sealant also works REALLY well (Nylog recommends Red for R12, Blue for R143a, but most A/C people I talked with said they just use whatever they have in their toolbox at the time) and helps to keep these lubricated. It's a great product for O-rings too and helps prevent them from getting brittle. Feels/looks like snot but its very good stuff.

Access to the compressor and other A/C components may be a challenge (O.K. pain in the ...) but the actual repair processes are not really very difficult.

Buona fortuna Lino.

Vincent

P.S. Always use safety glasses and gloves when working with refrigerant systems - it can cause some nasty freeze burns.

 

THere is a fair chance the expansion valve will need replacing as well - especially if the system was converted from 12 to 134. Often the expansion valve will be clogged by the incompatible oils that were used at the time, causing poor or unreliable performance. I ASSUME that the expansion valve is a commonly available one but I don't know that for sure.

An option for refrigerant is Duracool which will cool better than 12 or 134 and is compatible with either. HOWEVER it is a butane or propane - related product and most ac shops will likely not work with it. All this stuff is pretty easy to do yourself if you want to do so but you will need a proper set of ac gauges and access to a vacuum pump. You can buy a good gauge set/vac pump together for less than 200 bucks.

Note - replacing a properly functioning York with a newer compressor will not improve performance. THe York moves more liquid per engine rev than the Sanden. It cooled cars that a 3x8 could fit inside and it is way overkill for the 3x8 as far as capacity. The weakness of the 3x8 ac is in the condensor, evaporator and interior airflow volume.

 

+1 on the airflow comment.

I used Duracool for the first time this past summer and was able to get a 40 degree F drop in temp at the vent outlet, but the problem is, it's just the one vent in the middle and it's waaaayyyy up front on the dash. By the time the air reaches my face, it's already picked up warm air from the cabin. The air is cool, but the effect is mediocre.

I suppose if my GT4 had the A/C update done years ago (with reloacted, dual vents under the dash), it'd be better. On the other hand, I'd been driving around with non-functioning A/C for all these years so I'm happy with what I have now, even if it is so-so.