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Aircraft Cockpits

Discussion in 'AviatorChat.com' started by mwr4440, Oct 13, 2009.

  1. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Four Time F1 World Champ
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  3. RWatters

    RWatters Formula 3

    Feb 21, 2006
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    The F-111 cockpit made my head explode. Jesus!
     
  4. SilverF20C

    SilverF20C Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2004
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    *patiently awaits a related story from Taz* :D

    Great website!
     
  5. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 Veteran
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    The oldies are always the most interesting. Thx for posting.
     
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  7. RacerX_GTO

    RacerX_GTO F1 World Champ
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    Gabe V.
    F-111, a prime example of the days before multi-function menus. Just make a switch and button for everything. :D


    B-36 - Millennium Falcon :D
     
  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #7 tazandjan, Oct 13, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
    The F-111D and F-111F had more digital capability, but were still user intensive. The F-111D (not shown in the photo) was 10-15 years beyond the state of the art in 1974 with TV displays for pilot and and WSO, digital doppler processing unit for ground and air-to-air modes, high resolution ground map, digital computer complex with a general navigation computer and weapons direction computer. Kalman filtering between INS, doppler and air data.

    The F-111F was a compromise with simpler avionics, huge engines (25K lbst each) and a Pave Tack IR/laser pod for precison guided munitions. Supercruise capability on the 1970-72 build F-111Fs. 73s and 74s were kind of crooked. You will not hear that anywhere else.

    Needed a two man crew, as you can imagine. Still no replacement.
    F-15E has only 60% of the range of an F-111 with equivalent payload. Retired because they cost two times the maintenance of an equivalent F-16 unit. Fact they were 3-5 times more lethal against air-to-ground targets notwithstanding.

    Still have the flight manuals for the F-111F if anyone has any questions.

    Not that I am an expert. Only have 2000+ hours in the F-111A/E/D/F and am a graduate of F-111 Fighter Weapons School. Twenty sorties in Desert Storm in F-111Fs and 80+ hours of real combat time.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  9. SilverF20C

    SilverF20C Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2004
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    Thanks Taz! It's one thing seeing these machines from a layman perspective, but put into context like you did, they are just that much more interesting.
     
  10. Aedo

    Aedo F1 Rookie

    Feb 22, 2006
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    Absolutely!! :D

    And I fully agree with the comment "still no replacement" - such a great aircraft for Aussie purposes :(
     
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  12. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #10 tazandjan, Oct 13, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
    Incidentally, that is an F-111F cockpit photo of 70-2390. You can tell by the virtual image display on the right. Photo appears to have been taken at the National Museum of the USAF. You can see an EF-111A in the background with the electronic counter measures pod on top of the vertical stabliizer. Originally, they also had an early
    F-111A, 67-067, on display, but it was not there the last time I visited. I flew both those actual aircraft during the 18 or so years I flew F-111s.

    Nothing ever built was as fast as an F-111F at low altitude. We could easily have taken any stock F-111F, removed the pivot pylons (couple hour job to R&R), and broken Greenamyer's low altitude record of 988.26 mph (858.78 ktas). For whatever reason, the flags hated F-111s, so we were never allowed to do that.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  13. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    When I look at what you guys had to operate and what you did it makes me realize that I just thought that I was a flyer. Looking at the the B-24 cockpit and how crude and primitive it was, as was the rest of the systems, I can appreciate the incredible advances in 25 years. BUT, as an ex TFX competition Boeing team member, I will always feel a bit of animosity for the F-111. I know that we had a better airplane.
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  14. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    This is a great thread - I just even gave a lecture today to the new USAF flight surgeon class on Human Factors and ergonomics in cockpit design.

    I smiled at Taz's comment, as F-111 to Mud Hen comparison is similar to the F4G compared to the F-16CJ Weasel. The senior officers of that time period, who some shall remain nameless but one's name rhymed with Tony McPeak, had it in for almost every 'unpretty' or modern jet; It is mildly arguable, that for the first Gulf War, it was the ugly Island of Misfit Toys jets that were critical to win the war for the folks on the ground: F-111, F-4G, B-52, A-10, F-117.
    All were considered 'non-sexy', but with their brave crews performed with honor and valor.

    Somehow, there is nothing more American than a B-52 lead into combat by a F4G Weasel...

    But whatever they fly, Bless em all, the long and the short and the tall...
     
  15. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Well said, Russ. I doff my cap to the guys who have displayed so much honorable commitment to serve our country somewhere else in the world thus keeping the line of defense away from our shores. Regarding the " non sexy " implements of war such as the B-52, F4, A-10, and F-111, I have always considered the axiom, "Design follows function" and in each case this holds true. They ain't in no beauty contest but they are designed to perform well in the realm in which they operate...like an axe.
    Taz, I hope I didn't step on your toes.
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  16. zygomatic

    zygomatic F1 Rookie
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    #14 zygomatic, Oct 14, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2009
    Our appreciation is only exceeded by that of the boys on the ground, for whom a friendly A-10 (or F-16 or B-52) is a most welcome sight.

    To wit, a great story from Afghanistan in 2004 - though the aircraft ain't ugly, the appreciation is real:


    So we are up in the mountains at about 0100 hrs looking for a bad guy that we thought was in the area.
    Here are ten of us, pitch black, crystal clear night, about 25 degrees. We know there are bad guys in
    the area; a few shots have been fired but no big deal. We decide that we need air cover and the only
    thing in the area is a solo B-1 bomber. He flies around at about 20,000 feet and tells us there is
    nothing in the area.

    He then asks if we would like a low level show of force. Stupid question. Of course, we tell him yes.

    The controller who is attached to the team then is heard talking to the pilot. Pilot asks if we want it
    subsonic or supersonic. Very stupid question. Pilot advises he is twenty miles out and stand by. The
    controller gets us all sitting down in a line and points out the proper location. You have to picture
    this. Pitch black, ten killers sitting down, dead quiet and overlooking this about 30 mile long valley.

    All of a sudden, way out (below our level) you see a set of four 200' white flames coming at us. The
    controller says, "Ah-- guys-- you might want to plug your ears." Faster than you can think, a B-1,
    supersonic, 1000' over our heads, blasts the sound barrier, and it feels like God just hit you in the
    head with a hammer. He then stands it straight up with 4 white trails of flame coming out and
    disappears.

    Cost of gas for that: Probably $50,000
    Cost to Hearing: $500 for hearing aids (eventually...)
    A bunch of Taliban thinking twice about shooting at us: Priceless
     
  17. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Don't ya' love stuff like this!!
     
  18. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    This brought back a memorable introduction to our first Abottsford Airshow back in the 60's when it opened on Saturday morning at 1100 with a finger five formation of CF-101's sneaked down the Frazier River valley north of the field and came in at 100 feet and going like a bat outta hell. Nobody in the crowd saw them coming and my partner and I caught the sight of the black exhaust smoke taking shape and yelled," Look North!" but by that time they were at the perimeter of the field then they hit their afterburners and bombed the place with a shock wave of sound and over-pressure. I don't think they were mach 1 but just under it because for 30 seconds after the pass we could hear the air singing and roaring as it equalized the pressures. Kids were screaming and crying and a few mothers were too so that is the last time that happened. The Canadians know how to have fun and they love to fly. The next year the CF-101's were back and did the same thing en trail but at a higher altitude . The last plane decided to do a series of rolls on the way up and disintegrated in a ball of fire. We saw the crew eject safely but they were burned a bit . The previous act was a CAF helicopter that never got the chance to land . It went right to where the crew landed, picked them up , and rushed them to Vancouver B.C. hospital. They both were back the next year flying another CF-101
    Exciting days at Abottsford.
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  19. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    Sounds like the Voodoo "pitched up" and disintegrated in flight during the climbing rolls. A common problem with the 101 unfortunately........
     
  20. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    You are right on. An ex-Voodoo driver told me that the F-101 was good for one roll. After that it went into a yaw and or pitch-up and did bad things. The incident happened very quickly and stripped the center structure of the wings and aft fuselage and then the nose . Somehow the crew punched out of the fire ball and cleared the aircraft. We watched the center " chunk" with the engines plunge to the ground and impact in a farmer's field while the olive drab chutes of the crew drifted to the west.
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  21. SilverF20C

    SilverF20C Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2004
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    You can say that again. Another great thread with more great stories from everyone.

    A few casual observations regarding the thread topic:

    - Sheepskin(?) seat covers seem to be the choice of several long range bombers/transport. Hunker down and get comfortable!

    - Interesting seeing the advancements in the recon planes. From pencil holders in the U-2A to the "orbit here now" button on the UAV Desert Hawk laptop/"cockpit". Trying to imagine being in a space suit and having to use a pencil in that cramped cockpit with those gloves.
     
  22. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    #20 Kds, Oct 15, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2009
    5 of our 18 operational Voodoo losses were reported as being due to pitch up.........there are also 6 others where no explanation was given on this report, and the same thing may or may not have happened...........

    http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/Aircraft_by_Type/CF-101Voodoo/CF101Voodoo.htm

    BTW this is a very interesting site overall to military aviation buffs...........it's one of those where you'll get lost for an hour or so reading the stuff.
     

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