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Aircraft Sales Brochures - for Airlines

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by Jet-X, Jan 2, 2013.

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  1. Jet-X

    Jet-X F1 Veteran

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    #1 Jet-X, Jan 2, 2013
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    I figure with all the discussion on aviation including civil airlines, I'd share some brochures given out by the manufacturers to prospective customers. Of course very serious customers get a full breakdown for their routes and operations with fuel burn and other comparisons.

    Similar to going to a car dealership, and having a take-away, I thought I'd share some of what I have so you can see what an airline reviews prior to getting into deeper discussions with representative salesman at the various aircraft manufacturers.

    One of my favorite airliners, the British Aerospace 146 (BAe 146 for short) I've collected a wide range of brochures and flight manuals. I thought I'd share some of them here.

    I also have a prospectus from Boeing to TOA Airlines in Japan (which became JAS - Japan Air System, which was acquired not long ago by JAL) that featured a wide range of aircraft, including one that wasn't 'greenlit' to offer (Boeing 747SP Advanced - more fuel efficient and digital cockpit).

    Anyway if this thread proves of interest, I'll continue sharing/posting (and if not, well, I'll let it die quietly).

    Finally here is a link to a 20 page PDF brochure of the aircraft.

    http://www.jet-x.com/brian/BAe146.pdf
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  2. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    #2 BMW.SauberF1Team, Jan 2, 2013
    Very cool! I've always liked these sort of things.

    Does every new 747 sold come with a key? Not a functional key of course, but a gold display piece. Would love to have one of those.
     
  3. Jet-X

    Jet-X F1 Veteran

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    #3 Jet-X, Jan 2, 2013
    I've seen the keys before, but what I've seen, it's a generic key with no inscription on it. It's ceremonial at best. However, I'm sure some have been engraved and imprinted for special clients or special occasions.
     
  4. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

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    #4 LouB747, Jan 2, 2013
    I'm hoping to get a key on the 10th! But I'm guessing I won't. I may have to make up my own key and have them present it to me....LOL. I'd love to have a key with the aircraft N number and type on it.
     
  5. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    #5 BMW.SauberF1Team, Jan 2, 2013
    What?! They won't give you a 747-8 key? You fly them! I'm hoping you get one...please do post photos of it if you get the chance. :)
     
  6. Jet-X

    Jet-X F1 Veteran

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    #6 Jet-X, Jan 2, 2013
    If you do Lou, post lots of pictures. Also, usually the key is presented when the airline representative signs the paperwork and the cash is transferred.
     
  7. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

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    #7 LouB747, Jan 2, 2013
    Yeh, we're having a meeting on the 9th, with the delivery flight on the 10th. But I believe the money exchanges hands on the 8th. As cheesy as it may sound, I may actually have a few sets made up myself for the whole crew if I have time. I'll know where they came from, but the other 2 pilots don't have to...

    Or maybe I'll call Boeing and see if they can do something for us....
     
  8. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

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    #8 Tcar, Jan 2, 2013
    That's great... thank you...


    I flew the BAe-146 many times from Denver to Steamboat Springs, CO (7K ft. ASL) and Denver to Santa Barbara, CA...

    United Express (Air Wisconsin, maybe?).


    No thrust reversers, instead had huge air brakes under the tail.

    VERY quiet, amazingly quiet, in fact.
     
  9. Jet-X

    Jet-X F1 Veteran

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    #9 Jet-X, Jan 2, 2013
    The 9th, my birthday...to bad the flight wasn't on the 9th.

    But it think the key gesture would be awesome, and yeah, see if Boeing can't do something for you guys. Don't forget, pictures from the cockpit with all of you holding the 'keys' to your new plane.

    Yep, that's who United had their contracts with. Air Wisconsin was the BAe 146-200 and -300 launch customer, and had I believe the worlds largest 146 fleets. Nothing could match the 146 short field performance, even to this day (I believe) in terms of overall payload and performance. But it wasn't cheap to operate burning as much fuel (and sometimes more) than a 737 that carried more passengers and had greater range.

    It was a very good aircraft for short haul. Max speed was MACH .70 which isn't breaking any speed records (737 flies .80). It was also limited to 31000 feet altitude.

    Aside from lack of thrust reverses it also did not have leading edge slats either, and a simple flap system. I could go on and on about this lane, it's biggest weaknesses (which were also its strengths) were the engines. Damn quiet, but overly sensitive.
     
  10. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    #10 Bob Parks, Jan 2, 2013
    I have sales brochures and program time plans for the 707, 727, 3707, 747, and 777. Also a couple of VIP registered and ribbon tied boxed 3707 program plans that go with the full size general arrangement drawing and a titanium slat leading edge rib that was machined by the then infant NC machines.
     
  11. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

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    #11 Tcar, Jan 2, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2013

    Earlier, I flew to Steamboat on a Continental Dash 7.

    Steamboat built a new airport for Continental flights (every hour during ski season). Just as Steamboat finished the airport, Continental dropped service there... oops...


    I always thought that Denver to Santa Barbara was kind of a long flight for the BAe-146, but that's what United flew on that route. Maybe the Santa Barbara airport couldn't handle larger jets... it was a fairly small airport. The flight was never full, so maybe that was why; too expensive for a mostly empty 737.
     
  12. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    #12 Gatorrari, Jan 3, 2013
    Ironically, the only time I ever flew into Santa Barbara was coming from Denver, on a United 737, that was not "mostly empty", back in 1989. It seemed like a rather short runway to operate 737s, but nowadays AirTran is flying them into Key West, which only has a 4800-foot runway!

    (Of course, Tracor was flying aircraft as large as 707s and DC-10s into Santa Barbara for overhaul or modification, but those aircraft were nearly empty.)
     
  13. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #13 donv, Jan 3, 2013
    The 146 brochures are cool! It was an interesting airplane, to be sure. Obviously they play up the takeoff performance, as that was the main thing it had going for it.

    As I recall, it's a good thing it had 4 engines because the engines were a real weak point.
     
  14. LouB747

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    #14 LouB747, Jan 3, 2013
    The only airplane with 5 APUs...4 on the wings and 1 in the tail.....
     
  15. Jet-X

    Jet-X F1 Veteran

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    #15 Jet-X, Jan 3, 2013
    Yep, and the acronym "BAe" = "Bring another engine"

    As I mentioned, strong points were size and how damn quiet they were. But they weren't reliable, and if airlines pushed them (i.e. flying max cruise speed) is when they'd wear down significantly faster and be prone to IFS.

    Ironically, they were and are still the only geared turbofans being used. I say ironically because that's the technology the industry is now exploring for narrow body jets to save on fuel economy, number of moving parts, etc. Pratt&Whitney, GE, etc. are all spending heavily now trying to find a suitable tech to offer on newer jets. Who knows if anything will come of the technology, because I also know engine manufacturers were exploring (again) unducted fan technology.

    I'll post later today the Boeing stuff I have from 1986...was reading again last night, the 747SB Advanced was pretty interesting, as was the 767-400 (not the one now in service, but the proposed version from '86), complete with winglets and a rear upslope in the fuselage of 1.5 degrees (giving the rear passenger windows that 'lift/veer upwards' like the A300 series of planes).
     
  16. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    #16 Jeff Kennedy, Jan 3, 2013
    There is a reason why the BAe 146/Avro 85 etc. did not sell well. No range, no speed, no altitude and 4 undesireable engines. They did somewhat work for John Wayne airport because of the severe noise restrictions there. But not well enought to overcome the other bad characteristics. They are still tryng to recycle these things into VIP use. Formula 1 does/did have one for the traveling FOCA staff.

    The Challenger 600 used thos engines too - did not become a good aircraft until they switched to the CF34.

    Jeff
     
  17. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    #17 Bob Parks, Jan 3, 2013
    Re 767-400 1986. I did some layout work on that airplane and nobody had a good feeling about bending the 46 section to get tail clearance for T/O rotation.
     
  18. Jet-X

    Jet-X F1 Veteran

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    #18 Jet-X, Jan 3, 2013
    Actually the BAe/Avro DID sell well. Sold just shy of 400 planes, which is/was a success and built for nearly 20 years. Outsold and outperformed its competitor, the Fokker F70/100.

    The market evolved/changed, fuel prices went up, and the need for 4 engines or STOL performance changed and was no longer needed as newer planes and engine tech came on the scene. Even with Boeing/Airbus, the move away from 4 engines to 2 is prevalent.

    This plane was never meant for long range use. It was always built with 300-600 mile sectors, of which you don't need the range nor the speed.

    Unlike similar sized planes, it was built for a specific market (STOL airfields, thin regional routes). that market was already small, and airlines hadn't fragmented at that point to a point-to-point network (still relying on hub and spoke).

    And it's still used pretty widely in Europe, and specifically into LCY airport, as well as being adapted for new markets (oil exploration and remote operations, firetanker of which there are 2 in California, VIP as you pointed out).

    No arguments that it was a niche aircraft, but filled the need that was there (still is), but newer planes have since replaced it. Although
     
  19. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #19 donv, Jan 3, 2013
    The problem is that turboprops do that job better, and always have.

    The material you have is cool, though-- thanks for sharing it!

     
  20. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    #20 Gatorrari, Jan 3, 2013
    The only time I ever flew a 146 was the only time I had a takeoff aborted!

    I flew one from Islip (NY) to Daytona Beach via Dulles on a United regional carrier. The flight number changed at Dulles but the aircraft did not.

    As we rolled for takeoff at Dulles, the pilot aborted the takeoff fairly early in the run and pulled off onto a taxiway. We sat for awhile as the pilot cycled the engines a few times; curiously, he also raised and lowered the flaps as well. As we began taxiing again back to the head of the runway, the pilot announced that a warning light had come on on his panel, and the crew's investigation determined that only the light itself was faulty (do these airplanes have Lucas electrics?). We then took off normally and had an uneventful flight to Daytona.

    Ironically, I was seated opposite a fellow I knew from the gym who was a bit of a celebrity: the late Al Oerter, four-time Olympic discus champ. When the takeoff was aborted, we both looked at each other and wondered, what's that all about?
     
  21. Jet-X

    Jet-X F1 Veteran

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    #21 Jet-X, Jan 3, 2013
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