Airplanes vs. Ferraris as a recreational vehicle | FerrariChat

Airplanes vs. Ferraris as a recreational vehicle

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by snj5, Sep 25, 2007.

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  1. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
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    Russ Turner
    One of the difficult decisions I have had with the more pricey Ferraris is that although I do love them so, almost any airplane for comparable money is soooo very much more tempting if the vehicle is just used for recreation. Maintenance costs for recip fun aircraft are comparatively less, and insurance isn't that far off either. Although I realize this is an extreme opinion, I proffer that almost ANY airplane is more fun than ANY Ferrari. It's just a matter of practicality (did I say that?) with the Ferrari actually being more practical in man cases.

    One example -- I've always wanted a boxer. But, with the recent price increase a Boxer is the price of a good T-6. I am too busy at work to have time to really enjoy both fully, so there you are; ergo, I'm looking at getting a T-6. And, (old) airplane people are just as nice if not a bit more folksy than many Ferrari guys.

    Anyone else have any insights into this?
     
  2. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 30, 2003
    18,066
    Savannah
    Buy a nice Gulfstream and i will come work for you ! :) :) :)

    a customer of mine has sold their GIV-SP because their 2nd G550 was delivered.

    thats right, they have 2 ! G550's to fly in..... must be nice!
     
  3. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    Southlake, TX
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    Rob Lay
    I know you don't want my opinion and you know where it is right now. :) I can't believe what some great historical rare warbirds are selling at compared to the Ferrari market. I really want a vintage Ferrari, but why not a Texan for same price? Those are my brief thoughts, thinking it through more I think it’s a balance for the Ferrari and plane lover (replace/add boat, vacation home, watches, etc). What is your net gain of "fun" per cost dollar. For me, buying a plane now is going to provide more than if I add a 3rd Ferrari. In my dreams I see maybe 4 Ferraris and 2 planes, time to go to bed. :eek:
     
  4. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

    Jan 28, 2007
    3,799
    Sarasota, Fl.
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    Stan
    I struck up a conversation with a guy in line for a table for breakfast over his shirt. It had a mustang on it and it turned out he owned the plane. It was Lady Jo, a TF model, a trainer. I was invited and flew the plane.

    HUGE bang for the buck. Lots of fun. Inverted four times in a 20 minute orientation flight. I gotta get back into flying.

    It was a fantastic experience. I am really thinking about it (ownership) more. One thing for shure. I'm going again.
     
  5. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

    Jan 28, 2007
    3,799
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    Stan
    The T-6s looked fantastic also. You can actually participate in class out there if you want to.
     
  6. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    #6 rob lay, Sep 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Sparky was out there, but don't think his P-51 made it this year. I have to go one of these years, hopefully a better year than this year. :(
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  7. ArtS

    ArtS F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2003
    13,368
    Central NJ
    I'm torn on this as well. A nice navion is not much money and great for puttering around alone or with friends. If you have a bit more, a Grumman Albatross - RV, Boat, Plane and Warbird all in one!

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  8. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

    Jan 28, 2007
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    He had his plane there. I love seeing it.
     
  9. drjohngober

    drjohngober Formula 3

    Jul 23, 2006
    2,040
    Cville and Gbury Tex
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    Dr.John Gober
    I just got back from the Red Bull Air Races in San Diego. If you ever get the opportunity to watch one of these races live, be sure and go or check out some on Youtube.These are the best pilots in the world . Makes Formula 1 look like Nascar.
     
  10. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    Nov 26, 2001
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    Is it bad that I have Barnstormers open in another window?


    I was considering adding a 400 to the stable, and actually have the funds here, but now I'm looking at C-150s and Ercoupes. This is bad...
     
  11. SAT4RE

    SAT4RE Formula Junior

    Dec 5, 2003
    595
    Blairsville, GA
    I've been a visitor, but rare contributor, to FerrariChat for several years...seldom feel the need to chime-in that often, but your question/comment is one I've often pondered. As a longtime aviation lover, pilot, and aircraft owner (also previous Ferrari owner) I've often compared and contrasted the merits of both hobbies and which one I liked the most. I, too, find that aviation edges out Ferrari (or any car for that matter) ownership. For me, flight is infinitely more rewarding. In fact, when I owned my Ferrari, I always told my friends that it was my fighter-plane for the road...the comparison was always to aviation. Though some planes are often called "Ferraris of the Sky," no one flies their airplane and says, "wow this must be what it's like to own/drive a Ferrari!!!" Yes, Ferraris are exotic, but virtually everyone I know has an automobile, and at the end of the day (yes...go ahead and fire your howitzers at me) Ferraris are still just a car. Aviation, however, as a complete industry still holds a magical place in the hearts of men. It is on every level more exotic than any car, and its practioners...the pilots...are, on a percentage basis, still a very rare breed. Still, the mystique of aviation lies not in it being an ego-booster and separator of the have from have-nots (often seen in the need for an exotic car) but in mankind's eternal desire to escape the "surly bonds of Earth." As for the prices of Ferraris vs. Aircraft, I would venture to say that individual aircraft values have a closer relationship to what they actually are (mechanically, utility, history) vs. most exotic cars which are more directly related to the price someone is willing to pay for exclusivity. Both are real markets, based on perceived needs, but one seems to be based a little bit more on reality than on emotional satisfaction. Buy the T6...it's history is one that helped change the course of the world, given the current price of Av-gas it's price is becoming (perhaps remaining) reasonably fair, and you'll be able to do and experience more in it than in any car ever made.
     
  12. Darolls

    Darolls F1 Veteran
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    Jul 2, 2003
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    Sparky
    If you have to make a choice, your own airplane is the way to go.

    I had to sell my twin Cessna 310 when I became diabetic, and also went blind in one eye. That's over 20 years ago and I still haven't gotten flying out of my blood. :(

    I'd give anything to be able to pilot my own plane again.

    Don't be fooled though, with a car you can let some maintenance go for awhile; with an airplane you can't.

    It can get very expensive!!
     
  13. bwassam

    bwassam Formula Junior

    Jan 3, 2005
    635
    North Bend, Oregon
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    Robert Wassam
    Well, I have a short bodied Mooney and I will tell you about the maintenance. It takes about 40 hours to do a proper annual inspection, and that is done every year. If I fly more than 100 hours in a year, (two hours a week = 104 hours) then I have to do a 100 hour inspection, which is essentially an annual inspection. Shop rates for airplanes are running about $80 bucks and hour. That's about the same as for cars. I currently pay about $900 bucks for an annual inspection and my airplane is dead on simple. I help with the work, for example I remove the many inspection plates and the easy stuff. If I just take the airplane in and give it to them and say do an annual, then the price is $1200. The $900 bucks is just the starting point. If I need any maintenance past the inspection then that is extra and the clock starts immediately. Luckily I do a lot of my own maintenance on both the 308 and the airplane. I get everything signed off by an IA and the plane has been inspected by the FAA for the mods that I've done to it. Also av gas is currently going for $4.50 +/- per gallon. The T-6 is one of the most efficent airplanes for converting avgas into noise. What a great noise it is too. My fuel burn is 10 to 11 gallons per hour. Your T-6 is almost easier to measue the fuel burn in barrels. (grin) Yeah, I'm poking a little fun at you with the barrels comment, but it is pretty high. Next you need to look at insurance. Full coverage runs about $1800 per year for my Mooney. Your insurance will be quite a bit higher because your airplane is more compicated and it cost more to fix it if you do something like a gear up. Lastly, you're going to need a hangar. I pay $200 per month for a regular Tee hangar. I doubt your T-6 will fit into a Tee hangar. So your cost is going to go up from there. I'm thinking $300 a month. Probably more like $350+.

    The good part about a T-6 is that you will be invited to nearly every airshow in your area. They'll usually pay for your gas. So what you do is arrive with empty tanks and have some gas tanks (55 gal barrels) in your hangar. That way sometimes you can conserve a little for later. Also you can get a movie role now and then and that pays pretty good.

    With the Ferrari you'll pay lower insurance, no hangar, and burn cheaper fuel. They are both a heck of a lot of fun. If you have time for the airplane, then use the ferrari to drive to the airport. That's what I do, even though the airport is only 5 miles away. (grin)

    Good luck with whatever you do.

    Bob Wassam
     
  14. dsevo

    dsevo Formula Junior

    May 7, 2007
    708
    Flower Mound, TX
    Full Name:
    Dustin
    10-4. I went too, and it was really exciting to watch. I think that sport is gonna explode over the next few years. I'm already trying to talk my dad into an edge 540-T. $300K and it will blow the fun factor of a Ferrari out of the water.
     
  15. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    Sep 30, 2003
    18,066
    Savannah


    excellent post. i am going to be taking the IA exam soon. there is a Mr Jeppsen here in Savannah with several amazing P-51's. the sound they make flying over us on the ramp takes my breath away each and every time.
     
  16. vm3

    vm3 Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2007
    728
    California
    I've flown straight-and-level Cessnas and aerobatic Extras, and now I have a 360. I think flying is more exciting than driving any sports car, but only in aerobatic aircraft or warbirds. Straight and level aircraft are very boring.
     
  17. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
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    Russ Turner
    I've restored and owned a T-6 before for 9 years,so I am somewhat familiar with ownership and operating numbers. :) (For those interested, a good average is 150 mph and 30 gal/hr, annuals are about 20 hours). I didn't want to sell the plane, but I had several overseas assignments and could just not bear to store it. Now that I'm retired and out of the military, I think it might be time to saddle back up.
    I will disagree a bit with the boring non-acro aircraft. Everyone is different, and some of the most pleasant times and certainly smiles per dollar came from my first airplane, a 65 hp Aeronca 7BCM Champ flying off of grass fields around the south. My goodness, what pure flying - no radios, few instruments.
    best to all
    rt
     
  18. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    Lucky guy, I've been watching most of them on TV. Can't imagine seeing it in person. Michael Schumacher is even a fan.
     
  19. jamie140

    jamie140 F1 Rookie
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    Oct 17, 2004
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    Jamie
    I just bought the SUV of planes - a 1998 182S. I'd say maintenance on a newer F is going to be way less than on an airplane.
     
  20. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
    12,755
    Dallas, Tx.
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    James K. Woods
    I actually had the experience of trading a car for an airplane. The car was a 1975 Porsche 911S Targa. The plane was a 1969 Bellanca Citabria 7ECA. It had 1325 hours on it when I got it, and about 1700 when I sold it 3 years later. The guy that I got it from was a wannabe oilman who also had a Piper Arrow, but he never really got adjusted to a taildragger. He gave me the plane, 3 months paid rent for the T-hanger, and $1000 cash for the 911. I estimate that I thus paid about $12K in actual value (in 1983).

    The airplance, while offering at least twice as much fun, was also at least twice as expensive to keep. Although the engine had just had a full rebuild when I got the plane, the fabric on the plane was duct tape city. I finally had to let go of it when time came to recover it or not pass the annual. This was also at the rock bottom of the bust when the Oklahoma Oil Boom failed (1986) , and to tell the truth, I was kind of missing having a collector car around.

    Nevertheless, I was able to sell it for 25K at the end of my time with it. The new owner was a guy that I used to fly RC planes with who just simply had to have it for bragging rights and did not really even negotiate. Counting maintenance, I figure I about broke even.

    I bought the Porsche back for $9,000. It was the third time that I owned this car, but that is another story.
     
  21. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    Russ Turner
    Quick ressurection of this thread.
    Am horning in on an older military aircraft and just wondering.

    So, as an example, would you rather have a really nice AT-6/T-28 or a Daytona? That is essentially my choice.

    Just hypothetical.... :)
     
  22. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    Well, other than entering a few raised-nose events, what can you do with a Daytona that you can't do with the Mondial?
     
  23. Pantera

    Pantera F1 Rookie

    Nov 6, 2004
    4,479
    Ill take the F-16 please ;)
     
  24. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    150 mph, oh wait, Russ can do 150 mph in his Mondial now. :)
     
  25. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
    NWA
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    Paul
    You only need to do 100 hour's on aircraft flown commercially or for hire. On your own personal airplane for your own personal use, its just a 13 month annual.

    [/QUOTE]Shop rates for airplanes are running about $80 bucks and hour. [/QUOTE]

    Wow, its no where near that around here. Still under $40 many places last I checked.

    I went through this problem too, airplane or Ferrari. I couldnt justify both so I had to pick one. I finally decided that without an instrument rating an airplane is only a sunny day local thing. You also dont have Uncle watching every move you make. And after 9/11, a car made far more sense. Its better now, but the choice has been made. Kinda. Well everyone sees my crank my head around everytime a plane flies over so I guess im still pretty hooked. The neighbors brother buzzed my house a week or so back with a turboprop Cessna on amphibious floats. I peeled the garage door open so fast he was just over the garage when I looked up. My wife and daughter were just about to yell at me to come look. The look on thier faces with their jaws open was hilarious.
     

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