Alfa 4C - "Without The Heart We Would Be Mere Machines"

The porches are boring with a capital B. The 458 untill its at 9/10ths is hyundai boring.
The elise is sublime but really crude and its purely a backroad car.

Maybe the Alfa hits the mark.

 

Which porsche's have you actually driven or tracked? There's nothing boring about a gt3 or 981 on the track or the back roads. I have never driven a lotus so I can't compare but I've driven many other exotics.

 

For the 4C doubters; tell me this doesn't seem like a fun car. This is a real owner btw, not a press guy or a manufacturer's video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0UX4Kh2Crg&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3jGrx5e7vg

 

Youa re correct about the 997 Gt3, I was refering to pretty much every modern porche barring the 997 Gt3.
I have driven for extended periods, a 73 Rs, a 964 several 996's and a regular 997, plus a stick 991. As well, as the rpevious cayman S. Extended periods to means means 1+ hrs on the open road or days. I also drove a997 Gt4 458 and Mp12 back to back, and the Gt3 was superlative.

The 73 Rs was driven in Zimbabwe of all places where a friend had one and the roads are open. It was an exciting car, but to me an aquired taste as many oldies are, not my tatse but I can see the point.

The 964 was Ok but very understeery.

The 996 did everythign well but at the end it was like I went fast but what was the point, clinical is the word that comes to mind and not in a good way.
It just worked but did nothing. Impressivly solid though.
The regular 997 I drove the grimsell pass in switzerland, the road was far more interesting than the car, it was an improvement in power ont he 996.
The cayman S maybe had the numbers but it had you at least 1 layer divorced from the action. Like a BMW M3 it went well but its feedback was how to put it kindly. subtle.

The 997.2 GT3 is probably the best car i have ever driven. That same day i drove a 458 and a Mp12, neither was even remotly close to the porche.

The 991 had the crappiest stick ever, oits like porche wanted to make it bad so peopel would buy pdk. I ddint think the eps was so terrible but the car was big and really more of alexus than what i look for in a sportscar.

So yes you are right the 997 Gt3 is awesome. Pity neutehr porche nor ferrari still make machines like it.

The rest besides the GT3 was pretty blah and incresingly blah with each generation.

A 997 Gt3 is like a lotus on steroids, i think it should be the benchmark for how a modern sortscar should drive, ferrari and porche would do well to emulate it.

Wither the 997 Gt3 because now we have the 991 and while its undoubtably faster I seriosuly doubt for a driver its "better" as can be witnessed by the prices of used 997 Gt3's


Since people critcise those of us who may research the print on a car. I never anywhere read anythign that was anything other than praiseworthy of the 997 Gt3 and for good reason.

The auto press works on advertising so they pretty much never say anything overtly bad, but its also pretty easy to read between the lines, and there are many lines to read between on the alfa. I seriously doubt it steers like a lotus or 997 gt3, and that is where it should begin with the superlatives.

Besides the cf tub and styling I ahve not read anywhere anyone say the alfa is a superlative steer or has a superlative motor, and there is no reason why one or both should not be present in 2014.

That is is a greats ense of occasion car and fun to drive I get, so is a 70 spider. But the promise of the 4c is to dynamical hit the ball out the park and I dont belive it does, the promise of an Italian car is a soprano mtor and no one says that aboutt he 4c. To me, and I have not driven one, superlative dynamics and soprano motor are missing from the 4c. Which does not mean its not a great car, it just misses the magic of greatness, for no good reason other that its not been baked in yet.

 

Good driver in a car with a low rev motor.

 

Interesting post. driving a RS in Zim must have been an interesting experience to say the least.

However, I find it odd you base buying decisions on the motoring press, simply because how unbiased are the motoring press?

I challenge anyone to drive a 996 GT3 Mk2 on a bump road and not find it wonders all over the price and tramlines badly, at the time EVO said the car was great, a few years down the road they too said it had very poor ride characteristics and bounced all over the place.

I will say it again, drive the 4C and I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Me, I couldn't car what the motoring press says but I do care what my own hands feel and what the driving experience is like for me on roads I drive on.

 

I wonder if some of the negative press has to do with a bad experience from Alfa, sort of like the future owners of the 4C are being treated to now. They might have acted like the magazines were lucky to drive the car. On the flip side many companies kiss the testers feet to get a better result and I am sure it works. I will never forget a 1990's test of an Alfa tested by a large magazine at high altitude in the mountains when the temp was 92 degrees. That was Alfa's fault for not setting up the guidelines for testing better and delivering the car on a cooler day.

 

Yes and no. The evo test witht he cayman alfa and elise I think points tot he various cars positives and negatives. I have no doubt thta witht he standard tire wheel combo on the dstreet the Alafa is a fun drive. But no one is sayoig n the car is great pushed to 10/10ths.
The mtor however one tries to spin it is a low rev unit, might as well be a diesel. sall cars smooth high rev mtors seem to go hand in hand.

Lets see how they do at a local track DE event.

 

Rs in zim was great. The car is still there but has sadly been messed with a bit.
I think it was pretty clear from press reports thta the 996 Gt3 was really a bit stiff for the street.

The 997 was a different proposition.

Great cars are reckognised, witness a Rs4.0 being the price of a careera Gt.
Its also indicative of the fact that there are nbot many so called analog cars being built these days. The 4c I had hoped would be agreat supelative analog car. From what i read, and i pretty much read every source its not superlative. I ma sure it can be developed into a superlative car, based on it being mid engined and a cf tub, but as it is, based on whatw e know its not fully baked.

Also for all the hooha about the cf tub the car still weighs 2500lbs as opposed to say my elsie which is 1975 wet. teh new Miata is reputedly 2100lbs.

 

I love my 308, but driving the 4C today put a similar smile on my face...They are so different, yet so alike.
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Will say it again go and drive one.....

 

Stunning!

 

Not sure if this has been brought up before as I don't frequent this topic that often, but I noticed on the USA version of the car they some how integrated stitching on the dashboard that the European version doesn't have. I see that on the Alfa USA website too. Seeing tons of closeup photos of the Euro version dashboard, it's clear the dashboard is plastic, so I wonder how they integrated this additional stiching? I'm assuming the USA version dashboard has a vinyl covering over it to allow for stitching where the European version is without that covering and just hard plastic exposed? I have yet to see a clear photo of the USA version dashboard to confirm.

 

The US-spec version can be ordered with leather-covered dash and door panels, hence the stitching. The base US-spec car has plastic panels like the European one.

 

Yes and owned 3.

 

New miata weighs 2280 lbs has a stick too. If it handles like the old Miata. Well I can see why Alfa chickened out on its spider version of the maiata, based on spec it would give any 4c a serious run for its money. But hey the 4c has a cf tub so it must be better right?

Notice how even mercedes gets 350 hp from its blown 4.

 

What's with your obsession with the 4c? LOL

 

Let's not ignore the massive experience base MB has through the 2-liter Mitshu Evo.

 

I wanted it to be as good as the CF tub and looks suggested. I loved the concept car and the news thta thye would make it was stunning, like this would be the forst great car of the new millenium, small light and able. It seemd like the next thing and imo they fluffed it. Its half way there.

Others manage to get lighter weight with less. Others get way more power with warranty from the same displacement. the 4c is to me a bt of an Italian cynical marketing project. Waiting for them to build somethign truly great, the 4c is alsmost there, but not really.

 

How long exactly has fiat been building turbo 4's, they shoudl have the experience and know how. They just didnt bother. None of this is rocket science these days.

 

It's typical of Alfa. At least modern Alfas. Very close to greatness but they mess it up somehow. Only Ferrari is allowed to be truly great with the Fiat group.

The 4c had the potential to be a masterpiece based on its looks, cf tub, name. The reviews I read left a mixed impression of a car you get attached to but not one that is superb to drive for several reasons.

 

Boxerman and Amenasce,

Again your expectations are way too high. It is not a supercar, it is a intentionally low powered sportscar that just happens to have a cf tub. Nothing more nothing less. Personally I think the cf tub is ridiculous because it is NOT a supercar.

You won't go on to Alfa bulletin boards in 50 years time and read hundreds of threads on Alfisti restoring 4c's like you do now with 105's, 101's, etc.

The 4c, like the 8c is just to cause a splash, grab some headlines, etc. Hopefully they will stop playing with themselves and return to making real Alfa Romeo's which are almost practical GT and convertibles and saloons with very similar sporting genes. We do though have to remember that the 105 series when new cost considerably more than an Jaguar E-type or so my memory indicates.
Pete

 

That CF tub was probably a mistake, Because I suspect it has swallowed the better part of the budget. As a result of that, they had to cheapen out on suspension(struts front and rear), engine and interior.

If you take a look at the new MX-5, you'll see a car that is very nearly the same weight, while being a roadster, with a conventional metal construction. It also has a proper sports car suspension, dual wishbones at the front and multi-link suspension at the rear.

 

I read the viper was similarily compromised so as not to overshadow the f12. If these cras had no good competion thta old school Italian philosophy would be fine.

 

Low powered an light can be great, look at an elise or even miata. The promise of the Cf tub, promised so much more than what was delivered.

But I agree its a splash and grab car like the 8c. I am sure for somewhat sprited drivign on the street its a lot of fun and Ok and for a 308 driver great. But if you llike to really lean on your car, and even do the track thing its lacking, and it did not have to be that way, and in fact its promise was so much more.


If mazda can make a lighter miata with wishbones why did fiat just decide no. You can see why Alfa is not doind a spider version of the miata, it would outclass the 4c dynamicaly. Instead w eread theat Alfas must be built in Italy and other some such marketing drivel to sell illusion. I would like Alfa to sell more than illusion, I love the illusion too but I wnat more than that.