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Alfa in the USA?

Discussion in 'Other Italian' started by Pat, Jan 3, 2004.

  1. Pat

    Pat Karting

    Jan 2, 2004
    88
    Genova, Italy
    Full Name:
    Emanuele
    Fiat's managers says Alfa Romeo is going to come back in the USA in 2005.

    Alfa Romeo will probably send the new 158 (which replaces the best-selling 156), maybe the old 166, the new GTV and the GT models, plus the 8c Compietizione some years later.

    Europe is starting to appreciate Alfa Romeo again, after the big crisis of the past year. Altough Alfas today are still front wheels drive, the driving quality is very high and dinamically the new Alfas are really fun to drive again....

    What do you think about ALfa's comeback to the States?

    In the next future Alfa will probably turn back to the rear wheel drive.

    Some photos of the actuals Alfas in Italy:
    http://www.alfaromeo.it/ALFAROMEO_ITALIA/uploads/PB_MODEL_EDITORIAL/1073792288/20030604/MO_KVb_E_00.jpg
    Alfa 156 GTA, 4 door, sedan, 3.2 V6 fwd, 250 bhp, 300Nm, 0-62mph 6,9 sec. (Alfa 156: 1.9 jtd, 1.9 mjtd, 2.4 jtd, 2.4 mjtd diesels, 100 to 175 hp; 1.6, 1.8, 2.0, 2.5; 105 to 190 hp)

    http://www.alfaromeo.it/ALFAROMEO_ITALIA/uploads/1030/1073891597/20031202/GT_KV.jpg

    http://www.alfaromeo.it/ALFAROMEO_ITALIA/uploads/PB_MODEL_EDITORIAL/1073891587/20031202/GT_esterno2_big.jpg
    Alfa GT, 3 door coupé, (1.9 diesel multijet 150 bhp, 0-62 in 9,6; better than a 3.2 Cayenne...; 2.0 Direct Injection Gasoline, 166 Hp; 3.2 V6 239 Hp)

    http://www.alfaromeo.it/ALFAROMEO_ITALIA/uploads/1030/1073792314/20030929/KVb_01.Anteriore.jpg
    Alfa 166, 4 door sedan (like 5s BMW), (2.0 150 Hp, 2.5 188 hp, 3.0 220 hp, 3.2 239 hp, 2.4 diesel multijet 175 hp, 2.4 diesel jtd 150 hp)

    http://www.alfaromeo.it/ALFAROMEO_ITALIA/uploads/PB_MODEL_EDITORIAL/1073792272/20030604/MO_KVb_C_00.jpg
    Alfa 147 GTA, 3 door, 3.2 V6 250 Hp, 0-62mph in 6,7 sec; In 2005 there will be a 4x4 version (40-60) with a 3.5 (330 hp)

    http://www.alfaromeo.it/ALFAROMEO_ITALIA/uploads/1030/1073820351/20030718/MO_C_09_000_1.jpg
    Alfa 147 has also 5 doors and other engines (1.9 jtd, 1.9 mjtd - 100 to 140 hp; 1.6, 2.0 - 105 to 150 hp)


    Everyone of these models gets an optional gearshift similar to the Maserati's "cambiocorsa", but more like an automatic, with the 2.0 litre and 3.2.

    so, I'll wait for your opinions ;)
     
  2. Papa G

    Papa G Formula 3

    Dec 29, 2003
    1,378
    I would LOVE to see ALFA come back here in the US, preferably in rear drive (w/ 4wd opt.) format to compete with the near Lux/Sports models from BMW, MB, Jag, Audi, et al. They should not only be able compete in performance but also in reliabilty and efficiency.

    However, I don't believe that they will be here by 2005 unless ALFA already has something in it's engineered arsenal that will satisfy US safety/emissions etc., etc. regulations.

    Papa G
     
  3. Dom

    Dom F1 Veteran
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    Nov 5, 2002
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    I would also love to see Alfa back in the USA. Unfortunately, we always keep hearing different dates.

    I remember back in 1998, they thought that Alfa would return by 2003. Then it became 2004, then 2005, and then 2007. A couple of months ago, I read that they would not return at all. Now we have a 2005 date. It just seems that there is nothing definitive.

    Luckily my Alfa 164S is still going strong. I don't know what I'll replace her with when the time comes.

    Dom
     
  4. yesod

    yesod Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
    344
    Lakeland,fl
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    Keith
    I saw a newer right hand drive Alfa near my home here in Fla. Caused me to do a double take. How hard is it to import something like that?
     
  5. Pat

    Pat Karting

    Jan 2, 2004
    88
    Genova, Italy
    Full Name:
    Emanuele
    you're right....but Fiat is working on new engines with general motors: GM gives Alfa his gasoline engines, Alfa designs new heads (don't know if this is the right name...I mean the higher part of the engine, the one with valves....etc) and other things to make it a real Alfa engine with its own sound

    anyway, Alfa will keep many Alfa engines not developed by GM, like the new 3.5, radical evolution of the 25 yrs old 3.0

    Alfas' reliability in Europe is light years better then 10 years ago, but there's a lot of work to do still.

    Anyway, Alfas build quality is finally at the same level of the german cars, talking about the newest cars (147 is like the Golf, about materials and building quality).
     
  6. Pat

    Pat Karting

    Jan 2, 2004
    88
    Genova, Italy
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    Emanuele
    well, you're right.

    This because Fiat had big problems to decide its plans in the past years, due to its big crisis...

    now Fiat (and Alfa) are really trying to run out that crisis....and I think that things are getting really better in Turin and Arese.

    Manager says that Alfa will sell the new 158 in late 2005: that car is studied to meet USA's requirements (really sorry for my bad english again....!)

    Alfa started in 2003 to sell cars in Mexico.

    So there will be a 167 in the USA, not the 166 because it's an old car today, too small for the States, unable to challenge a 5 BMW.

    Alfa 147 in Europe today can challenge the Audi A3, in the last years the 156 challenged the old 3 BMW, but it can't challenge the new 3 (E46) because it's getting too old.
     
  7. Pat

    Pat Karting

    Jan 2, 2004
    88
    Genova, Italy
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    Emanuele
    what car did you see?

    you can maybe import it from Mexico, or come to Italy...;)

    I think the new GT 3.2 or 147 GTA can match for the price....

    but in 2-3 years we'll see the 8c Competizione, with transaxle mechanics (similar to the Coupe/Spyder Maserati's) and 4.0 litre V8 supercharged (420 Hp)
     
  8. sjmst

    sjmst F1 Veteran
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    Jul 31, 2003
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    I'd love to see it Pat. I've had THREE 164's and they were great cars. Last I heard though, it was 2007 or maybe never for a USA return. If they do comeback, they will need excellent product, better than the rest reliablity and quality, and, something Italian car companies don't seem to understand, excellent marketing.
     
  9. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 21, 2000
    6,340
    B.C., Canada
    #9 Peter, Jan 3, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I doubt it. Based on the poor record of Maserati sales since its re-introduction here in North America, other Italian companies (read: Alfa and my dream, Lancia) can see the immense struggle ahead of them if they try to return. No infrastructure makes it even more difficult (unlike obviously Maserati's use of Ferrari showrooms).

    Believe me, I'd love for them to come back, but for now, enjoy and savour the classic - better - Alfas we have here already...
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. icars

    icars Formula Junior

    Mar 28, 2002
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    Rodney Haas
    I keep hearing 2007 or 2008 lately. The main issue with Maserati has not been quality but rather no lease program. In today's economy people are not going to plop down 100K. If they bring ALFA back with a decent Lease program it will be a winner. It's a much more broad market car with intro cars in the 30s. But again without a decent Lease program forget about "id"
     
  11. Pat

    Pat Karting

    Jan 2, 2004
    88
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    Emanuele
    I'm glad to write with you Alfa lover ;)

    well, the officila date is still 2005, any if Maserati's problems made people in Fiat think hard about it.

    Excellent marketing: you shot the right point....
     
  12. Pat

    Pat Karting

    Jan 2, 2004
    88
    Genova, Italy
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    Emanuele
    sorry You'll never see Lancia's comeback to the States. Maybe Lancia is gonna die in Europe too. I'm very sad for this.

    So, Alfa will probably use some parts of the GM's structures, unlike Maserati who uses the (poor) Ferrari's.

    Did you see the new concept Lancia Fulvia? I think it's wonderful....we just have to decide quickly to produce it:

    http://www.newemotion.it/img/prodotti/motori/motori121g_1.jpg
    http://www.newemotion.it/img/prodotti/motori/motori121g_2.jpg

    Alfa 8c Competizione:

    http://www.newemotion.it/img/prodotti/motori/motori119b_2.jpg
     
  13. Pat

    Pat Karting

    Jan 2, 2004
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    Emanuele
    It's late 2005....and I really hope so. I completely agree with you, I didn't know the marketing politics of Maserati in USA.
     
  14. Jason

    Jason Karting

    Dec 1, 2001
    126
  15. DGS

    DGS Three Time F1 World Champ
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    The "news" of Alfa's considered comeback to the 'States has been around for some time. It's part of Fiat's deal with GM -- Alfas would be sold and serviced through GM dealers. (Which just goes to show that Fiat didn't learn anything from their GM/Fiat efforts, just before the Fiat marque vanished from the States. (Conan the wrench and aluminum don't go together.))

    The "new" Alfa sedan is supposed to be based on the GM "Epsilon" FWD platform (same as the new Saab), with an "Alfa-tuned" engine.

    So, from the news to date, we might get some Alfa logos stuck onto GM FWD commuter boxes, with maybe some Italian styled bodywork bolted on.

    Hardly an equivalent replacement for the classic Alfas.

    If it happens at all, I don't think it will last. The commuter boxes the Fiat-ized Alfa makes today won't be able to compete against a Camry, in the US market. Alfa's been gone too long from the US to make it on name alone. And the fiasco with Fiat's mangling of the Alfa dealer network didn't leave Alfa a good reputation. It wasn't quite as bad as the "flying dutchman" Maserati marque, but Alfa's got almost as hard a road back to follow.
     
  16. Prancing_Horse

    Prancing_Horse Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
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    YESSS

    afla's coin back, alfa's comin back, alfa's comin back


    WOOT
     
  17. Chenrezi

    Chenrezi Karting

    Feb 10, 2003
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    Europe
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    Michael
    Hi Pat!
    Man, well, I've been a fan of the 147 for some time but the price/equipment issue have taken me into a different place.
    Anyway... Why do you think Lancia will die in Europe?
    How is Lancia doing in Italy?
    When I was in Turin I saw for the first time the new Lancia Thesis (I believe it's this one, a very luxurious model, with a wonderfull front grille), and I've taken a test drive on the new Lancia Ypsilon (I love it's looks, it's interior, the quality.... everything BUT the engine and mechanics :( ) and I think it'sd gonna be a best seller.
    If so, and with the growing quality and range of products they have to offer, why don't you think they'll be able to try their luck in the American market?
    Again, I'm talking based on the current Lancia trend in Portugal and Spain, I don't know what's going on with it in Italy! I do know about the crisis on Fiat and the problems on the financial department...

    Molte grazie Pat! ;)

    Miguel
     
  18. Prancing_Horse

    Prancing_Horse Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
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    WHHHOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!:D :D

    ALFA IS BACK!!!!


    WHOOT WHOOT!!!

    :D :D :D :D
     
  19. Pat

    Pat Karting

    Jan 2, 2004
    88
    Genova, Italy
    Full Name:
    Emanuele
    do not completely agree with you ;)

    New Alfa's won't maybe be as good as ancient Alfas.....but they won't be Fiat/GM car's with a different badge on.....

    Alfa won't surely challenge the Camry....it has to challenge BMWs and Audis, it has to be a particular kind of car.

    That's true, Alfa will use GM's engines, with a completely new head design. The head is the 70% of an engine.......just waiting for the new Alfa engine family: they're actually studing and testing a new valve actuation type called Uniair, but it won't be ready to sel until 2007.

    Alfas ARE REALLY NOT Fiats with another badge. You have to drive a Stilo and a 147 to discover it....differents chassis, different suspensions, some common engine (powerful diesels).....two different worlds in dynamics and driving pleasure.

    Actually, every new Alfa keeps a particular driving pleaure, from the "old" 166 to the newest and really enjoyable GT.

    Anyway, new big Alfas will probably be rwd and awd, except for the coming 158, that will be fwd and awd....but it's not a Camry-sized car, it's an A4-sized car.

    There will also be a SUV.
     
  20. Pat

    Pat Karting

    Jan 2, 2004
    88
    Genova, Italy
    Full Name:
    Emanuele
    yes you're right, Ypsilon is a beautiful car expecially for women, much better than the rivals like the Nissan Micra....but it's just a Punto with some bodywork and wonderful interiors.
    Anyway, it's a best-selling in Italy now and maybe it's a really good in some other european countries.

    The Thesis:
    http://www.lanciathesis.com/#
    I think it's a simply wonderful car, non-conventional in its class, where it's difficult to challenge with the 5series, Eseries, A6....
    but it's different from any of this cars....it's a wonderful classical Lancia, and driving it at 130 km/h there's much more silent inside (proved with acoustical tests) than in the leader E320.

    The trouble is....to buy a 5series or a E320 is safer, they have been the same for years and they have got an image....
    Thesis has no historical image.

    So you saw many Thesis in Turin, because Fiat's managers drives Thesis....

    well, Thesis actually sells, but still less than Es or 5s.

    That's also because at the launch it had not enogh engines....now it's got a 2.0 litre Turbo, 2.4 5cyl 20V, 3.0 aut, 3.2 and 3.2 aut; 2.4 JTD and 2.4 JTD 20V (also with auto optionale).

    In the starting period it hadn't the powerful diesel (in Europe you can't sell a car in this size with a powerful diesel....!!!!) nor an auto....

    Fiat has no plans for Lancia in the future. That's the point. Alfa is going always better, Lancia is living only thanks to the Ypsilons, nobody wants the Lybras and maybe won't be a substitute for it.

    But the euphorism for the new Fulvia will turn many minds in Fiat I think....and I hope so.

    Gracias to you Miguel ;)
     
  21. Prancing_Horse

    Prancing_Horse Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
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    will alfa put an alfa romeo badge on the fiat panda?
     
  22. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    Aug 1, 2002
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    With front-wheel drive and styling like what you see below, Alfa's product will only appeal to current buyers of Japanese cars. Considering Alfa's (and other Italian car manufacturer's) reputation in this country for shoddy workmanship and dismal reliability combined with pricing that will certainly be in line with that of German luxury car manufacturers, and not Japanese economy cars companies, there will be no hope for Alfa in this country.

    The only way Alfa could hope to make a return to these shores would be as a specialty car manufacturer, offering nothing but a line of inexpensive sports and GT cars.
     
  23. jordan747_400

    jordan747_400 F1 Veteran
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    That really is a beautiful car!
     
  24. Prancing_Horse

    Prancing_Horse Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
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    i think the release date has changed to 2007
     
  25. Pat

    Pat Karting

    Jan 2, 2004
    88
    Genova, Italy
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    Emanuele

    not really.

    the new Panda is Car of the Year in Europe 2004. The fastest version gets a 1.250 litre turbo diesel with 100 Hp.
     

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