Alfa Romeo 155 V6TI | FerrariChat

Alfa Romeo 155 V6TI

Discussion in 'Other Italian' started by F1tommy, Mar 27, 2018.

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  1. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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    #1 F1tommy, Mar 27, 2018
    Does anyone know if there are any 155 V6Ti's in the USA?? I have seen many of them in Europe and I think 1 or 2 in Japan. They are hard to maintain like an F1 car with only the cockpit body shells production based . Never really liked the shape of the 155 street cars wich I have seen a couple of in the USA but these Alfa DTM cars are amazing, much better sounding then the German make DTM cars of the same era.



     
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  2. Rory J

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    #2 Rory J, Mar 28, 2018
    I saw one at the Goodwood FoS last year, but never in the U.S. The engine is the famous "Busso" V-6 in full race spec, of course. Same basic engine design as fitted to the GTV6, Milano and 164 in the States. Even the road cars sound fantastic.
     
  3. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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    #3 F1tommy, Mar 28, 2018
    A few photos...
    Thanks....But the engine is not a Busso, in fact it has nothing to do with it. It is a full race bespoke motor built for this race car only. The 1995/96 motor used the dimensions of the V8 Montreal motor with 2 cylinders chopped off.
     
  4. NEP

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    #4 NEP, Mar 29, 2018
    1995 - 1996 Alfa Romeo 155 Ti DTM

    2498 cc 60° V6 Naturally Aspirated
    Bore: 93.0 mm
    Stroke: 61.3 mm
    Comp Ratio: 12.5:1
    Weber Marvelling Fuel Injection
    420 BHP @ 11 500 RPM
    294 N.m / 217 lbs-ft @ 8000 RPM
    Weight: 1100 Kg / 2425 lbs
     
  5. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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    #5 F1tommy, Mar 29, 2018

    What an amazing engine it is. In 1995 they switched to the Montreal dimensions as it had the best cylinder bank V angle. Although the bore/stroke is different the overall architecture was that of a 20 year old production engine. Mercedes also did this on their engines borrowing anything they could from any engines they had built over the years(including trucks). Really strange rules.
     
  6. Rory J

    Rory J Formula 3

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    #6 Rory J, Mar 29, 2018
    There were several different engines this car raced with. The original 60-degree V-6 in '93 (?) was very loosely based on the architecture of the Busso engine (same displacement, bore spacing, V-angle). No, it wasn't really a production derived engine but the homologation requirements were in fact met by the Busso production engine and the basic architecture was there.

    The Montreal-based engine you refer to is the final 90-degree version from '95.
     
  7. F1tommy

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    #7 F1tommy, Mar 29, 2018
    Your right about the early V angle, but still a bespoke motor more like an F1 engine, only borrowing the basic architecture of the Busso V6 and Montreal. I think a Busso would pop at 11,500 RPM no matter how well prepared it was :)

    Don't you think it would be fantastic to have one of these doing vintage races in the USA!!! I have seen several of the later Mercedes DTM cars at "vintage" races in the last few years but none of the Alfa's. I did see one listed a few years ago at the BRIC, but I did not see it when I went to the races.
     
  8. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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    #8 F1tommy, Mar 30, 2018
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  9. Arvid

    Arvid Formula Junior

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    #9 Arvid, Mar 30, 2018
    An icon of a race-V6 engine. For the record : It's Weber Marelli. Weber fuel delivery and Magneti Marelli ignition components.

    As a sidenote - some years ago an Alfa 75 was built with a 155 V6TI engine near Oslo. Never saw it in person - just heard sporadic rumors about this screamer. Sounds fun :)
     
  10. ypsilon

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    #10 ypsilon, Mar 30, 2018
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  11. NEP

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    #11 NEP, Apr 1, 2018

    Thanks for the heads up.

    Google translation is amusing at times.
     
  12. nis1973

    nis1973 Formula Junior

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    #12 nis1973, Apr 1, 2018

    Seems like a really cool magazine and it comes in English too! I never knew of it but couldn’t help but order a few back issues...
     
  13. NEP

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    #13 NEP, Apr 3, 2018
    A snippet from the Net:-

    The 1996 version had a 2.5 L 90° V6 engine based loosely on the PRV engine delivering 490 PS (360 kW; 480 hp) at 11,900 rpm, had a top speed of around 300 kilometres per hour (190 mph) and weighed 1,060 kilograms (2,340 lb).

    The Alfa 155 V6 TI did a record of 38 wins (plus 3 other non championship races). The victories were obtained by seven different drivers: 17 (+1) Nicola Larini, 13 (+1) Alessandro Nannini, 2 Stefano Modena, 2 (+1) Christian Danner, 2 Michael Bartels, 1 Kris Nissen and 1 Gabriele Tarquini.
     
  14. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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    #14 F1tommy, Apr 27, 2018
    Just to give you an idea of how little the DTM V6's had to do with production motors here is a photo of a 1995 motor. They had the same V angle as the Busso at that time but nothing else was the same. They tested and used Montreal V angle engines also around this time in 1995.


    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  15. PDX_214

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    #15 PDX_214, May 6, 2018
    Here's an explanation from the man himself on which engines were used and why... it came from the Lancia Thema. The Montreal engine spec was never used.

     
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  16. F1tommy

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    #16 F1tommy, May 6, 2018
    Interesting video. A DTM 156 would have been most interesting but the touring 156 was also a good car. With the DTM engines what they mean by derived is you take basic V angle and spacing measurements and build an all new bespoke motor from it. Kind of cool they were allowed to use the basic spacing Lancia dimensions on the 90 degree motor even though they had also homologated the Montreal motors measurements(pre FIAT group 1986 takeover they would not have been allowed to). I have heard Mercedes was using truck motor measurement on their DTM motors(not a joke and very true ) :).
     
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  17. PDX_214

    PDX_214 Formula Junior

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    #17 PDX_214, May 7, 2018
    Hopefully with Alfa being enthusiastic about racing again we see some more monsters being built. The TCR cars are nice.

    As for the Mercedes using truck motors... that explains a lot! :p
     
  18. ypsilon

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    #18 ypsilon, May 9, 2018
    Not quite, just the basic dimensions were needed for homologation purposes, nothing more. The Lancia Thema engine was a regular 3 litre 90° V6, reving to 6.500, maybe 6.700/min.

    The 1996 Alfa 155 Ti DTM engines were 2.5 litre 90° V6´s, with 490 BHP at 11.800/min in 1996 (11.300/min in 1993) (rev.limit was set at 12.000/min). Engine weight was just 96 kg.
    Basically the 90° V6 setup was needed for homologations purposes for DTM, the Germans had simple rules. Those dimensions are the same as the Montreal V8 engines, which the DTM included into the homologation as well.
     
  19. PDX_214

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    #19 PDX_214, May 9, 2018
    What do you mean not quite? He said the spec came from the Thema. I never said they took the engine out and stuffed it in the 155. The guy who homologated the engines and built the cars said the Montreal cylinders were too close together so they never actually used the dimensions of that engine, just homologated them as a "screen", as he calls it.
     
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  20. ypsilon

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    #20 ypsilon, May 11, 2018
    Only the 90° angle was used and needed, they could've used the Montreal engine or the Thema engine....
     
  21. nis1973

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    #21 nis1973, May 12, 2018
    Not true. It wasn’t just the angle of the V but also the distance between the cylinders’ centers. The Montreal’s cylinders were too close together so they couldn’t use it. All in the video...
     
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  22. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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    #22 F1tommy, Sep 7, 2018
    Another 155 V6TI video. What a great engine. The Busso in some of the GTV6's was also very nice. Check the second video. Evil sounding howl coming from the race exhaust on the Totip GTV6. This car is in Japan and is a ex Jolly Club 1984 car not a 1985 car.




    GTV6 FIA 1984 Group A

     
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