I keep getting texts from my local Alfa Dealer about lease "deals" on the Tonale. I have never seen a single one on the streets. Can't be good. I like it but its overpriced and I would not buy a plug in hybrid. No place to charge it. If it came with a peppier gas motor I would consider it. Unfortunately, no...
I haven't driven one, but on paper, I like the Tenale a lot. I never really liked the looks of the Stelvio in real life (they looked great in pictures, but didn't like it in person). I saw the Tenale at the NYC car show and thought it was a great looking car. The limited 30-mile EV range (small battery) keeps it lightweight, but I'd guess it would still be pretty practical for short commuting on electric while still having unlimited range with the ICE. The early reviews I read were pretty great about it being a driver's SUV. It's been a while since I read the review, but I think they said it knocks the Macan off the top of the list for best driving sports SUV. I don't know what the lease prices are, but they seem to be selling new near the $45k-ish list price (I thought that price would go up by the time they hit production, but it doesn't seem to have). On paper, I'd have it to be a serious contender to eventually replace our Macan when the time comes. Really the only thing holding me back is that I'm not sure I trust Alfa with a first-ever plug-in hybrid to be reliable. Seems like they've done very well with the Giulia and the Stelvio, but hybrid technology is a whole different animal. I'll wait to see what the real-world feedback is on Tonale reliability is.
Dont know what reviews youve been reading, the ones I read said it was good given its really a cheap car underneath. Freind got one, the interior seemed cheap car with a layer of lipstick. To me its basically not more than a restyled slightly upscaled dodge hornet. Kinda like the bad old days when alfas were rebadged fiats when fiats were not even that great. Wasnt a good plan then not a good plan now. Its not even close to a macan Theyre struggling to move them because its simply not a great car, and a lot of alfas are bought by people who actually know the difference, theyre expensive for what they are. IMO its a pretend car. You know make it have some alfa design language inside and out, assume the customer cant tell the difference. I think theyre doing great deals on them though. Tonale and Gulia are specifically designed platforms and the underpinnings were really done by the ferrari guys, its shows in the way they steer and ride, the only things they have in common with the tonale is badge and some styling cues. i guess if the hybrid part works for you along with the small size its not a bad city runabout.
The Hornet is a down priced Tonale -- and that was part of the problem. They had the Tonale and decided Dodge could use a cheaper version that isn't a plug in hybrid at a lower price. Then they used cheaper materials on the Hornet, thinking people who wanted the luxury stuff would move up to Tonale. Didn't happen. From what I can see the Hornet isn't much of a seller either. Lots of cars in that segment now. So they immediately set up the comparisons and sank the splash of the Tonale. They should have waited a year or so but I think Fiat had its concerns and wanted its money back.
more to it than that lol Arne suspension on the finale compared to a not low budget vehicle Look at the hard cheap plastics on even an upscale tonale. a Freind who is a computer geek had a stelvio on my recommendation.. he’s not a car person at all so the way a stelvio drove compared to his Cadillac suv was not the main selling point . recently he got the tonale and let’s say quality drive etc is apparent to those who cannot articulate. maybe for the can’t walk away lease prices they’re doing to move the things they are sense my freind does love the in car tech screen etc on the tonale and that is a feature for him over the stelvio Kinda says it all for me
We have a Tonale and my wife really likes it, more so than the Stelvio or Giulia. And for our particular usage (short commute + local errands daily) it is nearly perfect. We rarely use the full electric range and the small battery charges easily overnight. It really is a different product aimed at a completely different demographic than the Giulia/Stelvio. But the fact that cost is basically the same means people will naturally compare them. Everything that has been said about the sophistication of the Giorgio platform (used on Giulia and Stelvio) is 100% true. It was a clean-sheet design for a premium RWD/AWD platform that cost a fortune to develop. And this is why even a base Giulia feels so good to drive - that chassis just has a good, "athletic" feel to it. There is no way the Tonale can compare to that with a transverse FWD / E-AWD set up, that's just basic physics. That being said, Alfa did a good job with the car. It feels premium without being overly sporty. But when pushed hard it's about as fast as a non-Quadrifoglio Stelvio. It corners fairly flat and once you get used to how it shuttles power between the front and rear wheels it can be fun to drive. Why does my wife like it better than the Stelvio? It's a little bit smaller in all outward dimensions (and feels it), but actually has a larger rear seat The electric torque makes it quick off the line and in city driving We fill up about once every other month Main gripes about the Tonale? Too many controls on the touch screen (seat/steering wheel heaters especially could use buttons) Sometimes the logic of when the ICE engine kicks in can be opaque/hard to predict Reliability has been a non-issue. A few screens can be a little glitchy and we've had to go in to the dealer for 2 quick recalls. That's about it.
My comments/review reading was just after seeing it at the NYC Auto Show last year (so pretty old). I hadn't heard of the Tonale before seeing it on the floor, but was quite taken with the looks at the show. The more I looked at it after, the better it sounded. The initial "preview" reviews back then (May 2023) were more positive (https://www.thedrive.com/car-reviews/2024-alfa-romeo-tonale-phev-first-drive-review-specs-price-options-impressions). I haven't kept up to date with it like you and @TheMayor have, so I see now Car & Driver was not that impressed (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a45443510/2024-alfa-romeo-tonale-test/), Road & Track and Motor Trend seem more impressed (though I don't typically put much weight in Motor Trend's view). I wonder what their impressions would have been if they didn't test the model that was optioned up to $57k, or if there wasn't a Dodge Hornet version. Logistically, I think the design is brilliant -- short EV range for daily commuting (while keeping weight somewhat light for a plug-hybrid) and unlimited range with ICE. When it comes time to replace the Macan, I'll evaluate the reliability and test drive it. I don't care much what reviews say, when I drive it, I'll know whether it's a fit.
Check out the savage geesse video review, theyre really good with prs and cons. IMO it may look like an alfa, it may not be bad car, it is no alfa.
People have literally been making that comment forever whenever a new Alfa model comes out. In the 1950s, the Giulietta wasn't considered a "real Alfa" because it wasn't hand built and ultra-exclusive like the pre-war Alfas. In the 1970s, the Alfetta wasn't considered a "real Alfa" because it had a transaxle. In the 1990s, the 164 wasn't considered a "real Alfa" because it was front wheel drive. Even as recently as a few years ago, people were saying the 4C, Giulia, and Stelvio weren't "real Alfas" because they didn't have manual transmissions. Looking back, some of those cars were definitely flawed but they are looked at quite differently now... I am not saying the Tonale compares to my Giulia QV or any of my vintage Alfas in terms of driver engagement or (relative) performance, but I don't think that was the mission for this model. Time will tell if it is considered a "real Alfa".
Alfas always drive great, the tonale is meh. While you points above are somewhat valid, youre also picking and choosing. The 164 was by all accounts a redone saab 9000, what set it aprt was the Buso motor, otherwise it really wasnt that great, not was the 155. The 75 was something special. We can debate the sud. Alfa died in Europe then the cars became nothing more than rebadged fiats in the 90s Mito anyone? You can fool some of the peopel some of the time, you cant fool all the people all the time. What makes a real alfa imo is it drives special, the brand therefore is like a junior ferrari, the tonale ,maybe could get away with its cheap plastic interior if it drove great, it drives meh. Im a big fan of hte 4c, but thats car that's only 85% cooked.
Thanks. Finally had a chance to watch this. It sounds great -- the only thing I see to avoid on the 2.0 is the sunroof (I prefer no sunroof anyway -- rarely use it anyway, and rather avoid drain issues after experiencing them on the Macan).
Finally had a chance to watch the Savage Geese YouTube. To be honest, I don't think much of this review at all. He seems to have a bias against the car throughout. He keeps talking about it as a $53k car while only barely mentioning at the end that it can be had for less (and he still avoids mentioning that the base price is about $10k lower). His only gripe is the underpinnings, but the shortcomings of those underpinnings are NOT evident at all in his driving feedback -- there are nothing but positive comments about the way it drives. Kind of reminds of people saying a Macan is a rebadged Q5 (having owned both, they aren't and you'd never know they shared underpinnings, and I don't really care anyway because both were excellent in their own unique way). He only mentions in passing that it can go full EV for 30 miles and that it got 29-30mpg in combined driving, but those are huge advantages over the cars he is comparing it against (X3, Q5, etc). I have a 2.0 Macan and an Audi Q5 2.0 before that -- the Q5 2.0 got 18-something mpg lifetime mileage, the Macan gets 19-something mpg in combined lifetime (I think the PDK makes it slightly more fuel efficient than the automatic Q5). I'd be thrilled to get 29-30mpg combined -- not to mention the first 30 on EV! Not sure on the back seat space, and will wait longer on reliability info on the Hybrid aspect, but even this video (if you toss out his "underpinning doom" that is not reflected in his own driving comments) makes me want one. This is the video being discussed:
Looking forwards to your review. Perhaos I am not drawn because the hybrid aspect means near zero to me and as we know hybrids don't get great mileage on the highway. I would say reliability is just fine. The market speaks, alfa is doing major deals to move these because theyre not moving, price then is the method theyre trying, and maybe itsa good deal for some sort of hybrid suv, and nicer than others in that regard.. Imo if alfa wants success they need to stick to their roots, great driving cars, with that something the Germans lack; Steering feel and ride compliance coupled with a bit of Italian flair. Depending on execution Alfa may actually crack the electric code for many of us. Ie a great driving car, with some emotion where you're not assaulted by screens. I not against different but band has to have what they call DNA. Porche was able to take an audi and infuse it with their DNA and it succeeded, but they have a strong sense of their DNA and they were suing a quality platform as a base. While cars can share platforms successfully, each one has to have its won unique charter and feel. A Macan is a Q5 bit to your point feel and drive very differently, in eiter case though theyre starting with many good bits. Alfa never succeeds when it dresses uc cheap bits. In in fact died in the late 70's -2k when they took cheap inappropriate fiat bits and dressed up the car as something else. The lack of sucess of the 4c can be traced directly to cheapening out with strut suspension on what otherwise was an excellent cf tubbed great looking car. Alpine did it right with the new a110. yes people don't like the new or different as you point out. Im actually looking forwards to an electric Alfa. I guess what set alfa apart atleast since 1956 is that while they were nto expensive cars, they were also not pedestrian particularly in the way they looked and rove. The Guila and Stelvio are both a joy to steer(although the 4cyl mtor is pedestrian), thats what set them apart from the sea of germans. Alfa reestablished itself with these two cars cause they were simply so good. My impression is the tonale is not that.
Honestly the totally outrageous cost of Porsche dealer service these days is what is causing me more than anything to want to go EV. Porsche dealer service used to be 30% more than an independent, now it's 300% or more -- for sure, I will never ever buy another new Porsche based upon service cost alone. I would buy a Tesla next, if not for hating the user interface (almost everything controlled by the LCD screen) and the "golf cart" front end and dashboard. The operational and maintenance are crazy low for Tesla, but I don't like the cars and I'm not sure other EV's are ready for prime time. The Tonale seems like a good compromise. As good as the Giulia and Stelvio already are, it seems like it's going to be tough for the Alfa almost regardless of what they do. I'm still under warranty on the Macan, but when it comes time to replace it, I'll definitely check out the Tonale. Most days, we'd probably be like @JoeCab where we are running on EV only. Agree that highway does not yield benefits for hybrid (and is the "worst case" efficiency mode for a pure EV), but with a 1.3 liter and being almost exactly the same weight as our Macan 2.0, the Tonale should get at least the same highway mileage as the Macan in pure gas mode. Some of the reviews I saw had city mileage in the high 40's -- which is pretty crazy good. On top of that, many days we would be on EV only. Our lifetime average mileage in the Q5 was 18.5ish mpg, and 19.5ish mpg for the Macan -- so the Tonale would be a massive leap in efficiency for how we typically drive.
2022 Tesla Model Y Performance. 19k miles and ZERO maintenance! LCD screen is one big Non Issue. New features added weekly via over the air updates. One pedal driving is outta this world, rarely rarely use the brake pedal.see a hole in traffic and go for it, never any fear or doubt if you can make it. Red lights are an absolute blast, Fear no one at them! Tesla is the wife’s car, I have 4 Italians.
I definitely hear you. By happenstance, I went with my sister-in-law to help her buy her Model Y Performance the day before bringing my Macan in for its 30,000 mile service. I asked the Tesla salesperson what the maintenance was and he basically said wipers and windshield washing fluid. No brake replacement, because the brakes are rarely used. Then the next day I got soaked at the Porsche dealer for trivial maintenance that was ridiculously expensive -- the "zero maintenance" statement of the Tesla guy was ringing in my head non-stop . My sister-in-law has had her Y for a couple years, and has only been to a charging station once for an out-of-state trip. Never needed any service. It is ridiculously cheap to fuel (charge), and she loves more than anything never needing to go to the gas station. She wouldn't go back to an ICE in a million years. Everybody I know with a Tesla feels exactly the same. As long as you can charge a home, it's hard to beat. She had more "range anxiety" with her ICE (e.g. running late for a meeting and need to stop to get gas) -- with the Tesla you can start every day with a full tank. I'm convinced it's the way to go, but I just don't like Tesla's cars. We'll see when it's time to replace the Macan, maybe Tesla will have something I like better or I'll bend and go full golf cart! . The Tonale looks tempting though -- it has everything I don't like about the Tesla -- and infinite range on ICE (though I'm not that concerned about range with a Tesla, 99% of the time, EV range is more than sufficient).
Had a Tonale PHEV for almost 3 weeks in Italy this past Sept/Oct. Drove from Milano to Genova to Forte dei Marmi..back to Milano & Lake Garda. It was comfortable to drive on stretches of autostrada, just the right amount to space to fit all our luggage without putting the rear seats down, easy to manage in the tighter streets of Genova. Def. got looks in that blue color, didn't see many around, frankly didn't see many Giulia around either. It was quick enough to accelerate onto highways and keep pace. Mine was pretty much fully loaded, the interior was driver oriented, everything within reach/access. Overall it was good, would I buy one here? probably not, and that's because I'm not an EV or Hybrid person. To each his own. I'm sad that Alfa is being put out to pasture by Stellantis, it's criminal... My QV was one of/if the not best sports saloon I've ever owned/driven. The Giorgio chassis is something special. add in that lump of a 2.9 V6TT pumping out 500+hp and you have something very special.
Pretty sad porche dealer fleecing their customer, and that Porche parent has so little brand management. As you attest that's an opportunity for competitor's. Never driven a macan but have driven cayenne's and never go it, they were pretty poor. The audi A3 and 5 i drove were nto bad and i think thats what the Macan is based off.? Somehow the Germans created this unstoppable cachet, in porches case i get it, its called 911 upon which the rest of the brand sits. There was great opportunity there for Alfa and Masearti, but as is the way with the Italians imo they have dropped the ball. The Stelvio is imo better than the porche SUVs but you get only two flavors, uninspired 4cl motor or over the top ttv6. Thats even more egregious with the Gulia. I really love my Gulia it hist so many spots that often I wonder why bother with the sportscars, thats doubly true when i go from a 911 now to the Gulia in aday, and to me besides the motor it is way way better than my e46 m3. What they missed with he Gulia imo was a NA v6 coupe. They've simply limited themselves, maybe doing both Alfa and masser was just too much. last night we went to dinner in the stelvio, were going down a straight road and little quick and then had to brake and get into a slip lane to enter the parking. The beauty of the way it braked, the sharpness and reactivity f the turn in, the properly judged steering weight, made that little pedestrian maneuver the type of joy you don't get in other cars, the type of thing totally absent in a BMW. It is too bad Stelantis is effectively putting alfa out to pasture, that Grigio platform put them back on the map through sheer brilliance. Now i see them attempting to mil whatever cred they established with some sorta nice product, and its not working. Alfa needs brilliance to stand out, the type of brilliance Italians do so well and was a alfa hallmark, stylish and simply exceptional driving cars, maybe the tonale has some style.. They may pull it of with the electric. Agreed on tesla, dont mind the exterior, but the interior is as appealing as a korean refrigerators. they do drive really nicely though, the steering is good and well judged, someone knew what they were doing and cared. I do a have a question though, why are you even thinking of ev or hybrid. ive nothing against either, its just that the current generations are not fully there yet, esp for a sprting driver either due to range or simple dynamics. The Hyundai Inoic 5N is getting great writeups as a driver car, but its not out yet, its expensive for what it is and range is not there, not to mention the korean refrigerator interior. But by all accounts I've read that car does show that a great driving emotive electric is possible, were just not there yet. Dosent seem like you need to save gas to remain solvent and the upcharge to ev or hybrid wont cover the gas anyway, so why do it now? Just curious as to the motivation. I know youre suv focused, but If I were getting a hybrid that new prius to my eyes looks pretty good and apparently drives pretty nice.
Agreed on most of this. The Macan is pretty different from the Cayenne. I asked my sales guy why I couldn't get a Macan with Tiptronic instead of PDK (don't really need PDK for an SUV), and he said that the Macan wasn't designed to be a smaller Cayenne, but a larger 911. The older non-Turbo Cayenne's weren't that great -- I know a guy who traded in his X5 for a Cayenne and he regretted (it felt heavy compared to his X5). The new Cayennes are better though -- I had a 2022-ish Cayenne as a loaner during service and it felt pretty good. The Macan is definitely based on the Q5 foundation, but you wouldn't really know it. The Q5 I drove from new to 100k miles and both the chassis and engine felt like new at 100k (could not say the same for the X5 I had before the Q5 at 100k). I'm a fan of the 4-cylinder turbo format just because they are so tuned for low-end torque (the torque peak is at around 1700rpm I think). Both with the the Q5 and the Macan, I test is preferred the 2.ot to the 6-cylinder Q5 (I think NA) and the Macan S. It just feels more responsive in normal driving. The larger engines feel stronger when you put your foot in and let them spool up, but for a DD SUV where I rarely push it, I like the responsiveness of the 2.0t in regular driving. The 4-cylinders aren't quite as smooth as idle as the 6's though. My friend just recently got a Macan GTS -- he's had all manner of the latest 911 turbos, and he has a 911r and a 458, and he can't stop talking about the Macan GTS. He says it feels a lot like his 911's, but with a lot more comfort. I haven't ridden in his Macan GTS yet, but he loves it. I can't do boring cars, so the Prius could not be more out (and my son would absolutely disown me, or send me to a mental facility ). Telsa is fully baked, but it's just not my taste. On the gas thing, I have a deep engineering background and I've done all the (real) math (which is pretty basic and undeniable) on efficiency, and environmental impact. Yes, I've read all the articles about them not being efficient and them being a hazard for the environment, but it takes about 5 milliseconds to blow massive holes in them. For a DD, I'd rather do something that is more efficient. I don't feel like I'm paying much of a premium for hybrid if I end up liking the Tonale (I reserve any opinion of the Tonale until after I drive the car). I don't know anybody who has an EV that is anything less than trilled with it -- not just Tesla, but most of them own Tesla. I've seen all the articles about them being nightmares in the cold, or heat, or having issues -- but not any humans with that experience or anything less than being thrilled. EV technology is fully baked, but we will need a breakthrough in battery technology (reduced cost) for them to be practical for everyone. For people who buy or lease a car every 5 years -- EV's are a great option as long as you have access to charge at home, and don't constantly do very long range trips. Buying a 10 year old EV or keeping a new EV for 15 years is probably not viable -- replacement battery cost is insane, for now. Also, repair times can be bad -- a friend of mine had an accident with his Model S, and between Tesla and Geico it took 7 weeks to get repaired. He wasn't dissuaded though, he kept the Model S and bought a Model X for his wife.
