Alfa Romeo Spider Graduate

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I'd put finding proper service at the top of the priority list -- well before car shopping. Alfas have a really bad reputation for reliability ... among those who don't service them properly.

Also: Alfa Spiders are lightweight, nose heavy, flexy, and RWD. And they have a solid rear axle. This may not be the proper toy for your GF unless she's really into power oversteer.

Seriously: in the '70s and '80s, the word was that the fastest way to destroy an Alfa was to loan it to your GF. The ladies love the look of it, but it's a handful to drive. (Yes, that sounds sexist -- but how many car guys have GFs who are *also* skilled drivers? The reverse would likely also be true -- a woman who bought a Spider for herself probably wouldn't want to loan it to her BF.)

Heck, I loaned it to my boss one day, for a quick trip to the other side of the airport (closed perimeter road). He came back complaining that it was "way too fast". His regular car (in the shop that day): A Porsche (sic) 914.

Besides: my '79 Veloce had good brakes for it's day, but after a stint in the modern EVO, the Alfa's stopping distances are *scary*.

If you know what you're doing, you can make a Spider dance like a ballerina -- it'll glissade around corners picking up and putting down a tire at a time. You can flip it from understeer to oversteer and back with the throttle. But let it get away from you, and it'll hurt you. It's a well refined implementation, but the basic layout dates back to the age of biplanes. Think of it as an historic vehicle.

 

Santos in Northridge - BEST Alfa experts/shop in LA............check for rust - expensive and testy, but pure Pininfarina styling. Set up right they are an absolute blast to drive. One of my favorites, especially series 2 spiders...1971-1974.

 

I owned an '88 Spider Veloce since new till just a few years ago. Really a great car and a fun engine. I assume your GF wants a five speed. There were a few auto Spiders in the last couple of years but they are very rare. My ex-wife drove the spider all the time with no issues. Things to watch for:

- Motor mount bushings need frequent replacement
- Drive train U-joint failure - you'll hear a thunk when accelerating in first gear
- I'd stick with series 3 or 4 Spider 1986 or newer I think - this gets you bosch electronics instead of lucas - a huge upgrade
- A/C is useless - It was actually a dealer installable option - but then who needs it - I thought about uninstalling mine
- Check the top for wear marks - oh and the veloce and quad have a much nicer canvas top.
- power window motor failures
- Rust, rust and more rust - series 3 cars were factory rustproofed which helps and hides
- Windshield wiper motor failure (happened to me twice)
- Find a real alfisti mechanic and he will make it sing - I know a great guy in Chicago
- Join the Alfa Romeo Owners Club http://www.aroc-usa.org/

Good luck in your search

 

My opinion is definatetly get a 91 to 94. I had a 91 and it was great. I put 150K miles on it before I sold it. The 80's cars are... well, not so nice. The power is down and some are pretty difficult to work on under the hood. Personally, I think the bumpers and black spoiler are ugly. But, that's a matter of taste. For sure, the 91's were a step forward mechanically.

I had two 1973 spiders before my 91. They are true sports cars but it's difficult to get people to work on Spica injection now adays. Still, the 73 was (in my opinion) the best looking of the series and the closest to what a real sport car is (rubber mats for flooring, big wooden Nardi wheel, magnesium wheels, and real chrome bumpers!).

The 91's have actual working AC (well, it blew cold air), an new interior and better electronics. The rear tail looks more like the earlier cleaner versions of the original spider.

The Bosch injection on 91-94 is pretty straight forward. The only problem I had was with the Airbag light. I never could get it to go off. Aside from routine maintence and things like rear trailer arm bushings wearing out (a really common problem with all spiders), it was a great daily driver. If the car seems to move itself right and left when going straight, it's most likely these bushings. It's not expensive to replace them. I did the brakes a couple of times and the clutch once. I did the oil every 5K miles (myself) and never had an engine oil problem. But, it did leak oil somewhat (they all do). A lot of times the oil is not engine oil but trans oil. It's common that the seal blows out, especially if the trans was overfilled (a common mistake by mechanics). The solution is to wait until you do the clutch and then replace the seal.

One thing I would really look for is a car having been rear ended. The body creases upward at the rear fender because it's not very strong. It can be repaired but some sleezy shops will just pound it and bondo it. You can see it pretty easily if you look at in the wheel well at the inside of the body at the top most part of the arch.

Rust is he enemy of all Alfas. But, the 91's and better had a 6 year rust warranty. Finally, Alfa put them through a rust proof bath before painting. I never had any rust but I never had it in Buffalo either.

You'll be hard pressed to find one without a crack in the dash -- either by the glove box (which fits poorly and often warp) or the defroster vents. All Alfa's suffer from this if they sit in the sun a lot. If you get a clean dash, consider youself lucky.

I think 90's cars were available only in red, black, silver, yellow and a strange dark green. Mine was silver with a tan interior.

Also, try to find a Veloce and not a Graduate. The Graduate was the cheapee version but I think they tried to pass it off as "sporty" in marketing speak. The price difference now adays must be minor. The Veloce's came with a cloth top and the Graduate with a vinyl. The cloths is 100 times superior in look, feel, and noise reduction. If someone replaced the top with a vinyl it was to save money. The tops last about 4 or 5 years if you don't abuse them. Never use anything but water on the clear window (armor all will crack them and turn them yellow in months). The top must be the easiest manual to put down in the industry-- ever.

What I found is that if well maintained, Alfa's engines are reliable (70's and early 80's can have head gasket problems), the gearboxes rarely have a major issue (although --like all Italian cars of that era --second gear synchro's are weak), and the rear end limited slips are bullet proof. The electrics are so-so, the interior wears easily, and the top is pretty darn good for keeping out water if properly installed.

Alfa spiders are not particulary fast by modern standards. For 2 liters, it only has about 110 HP or so. They also don't get good fuel mileage (I averaged about 18MPG). But, the size, steering, look, gearbox, sound, and driving fun more than make up for it. I'd get one in a heartbeat over a Miata anyday.

 

The really, really rare ones are 94's. Everyone knew that Alfa was leaving the US market so I think they only sent over a few hundred cars total... and most of those were sold at a deep discount to get rid of them. So, if you find a 94, that is the holy grail.

I know the 89's are far better than say an 83. I think 82 to 86 were probably the worst in looks, performance, and ease of mantenance. 90's had a lot of the 91 mechanical changes but still had the black spoiler and older interior.

I sold mine for $3000 about 5 years ago to a guy in Ventura county. It had a good body with fair original paint, a fair interior (I had the seats redone a few years earlier) and 2 year old cloth top, and it was in really good mechanical shape. But, it had 150K miles so it went pretty cheap.

I will say this. It's hard to find a good one anymore. A lot were abused and only true Alfa lovers really took care of them properly. Some have had as many as 4 or 5 owners. So, you either get one really good or one really beat up. There seems to be little middle ground.

Best of luck!

 

It's always been hard to find a good Spica mechanic.

But my '79 (Spica) got close to 40mpg on the highway (although "economy cruise" was 70mph). Pretty good mileage around town, too.
18mpg? How much did the '90s cars weigh?
But now that I think of it, my (Alfa trained) mechanic did make some mods on mine after delivery. (After I bought the car from the dealership, the race shop side had it for a month before I took delivery.) '79 was when unleaded was coming in, and premium was what got displaced at the stations. So the mechanic modified the injection tuning to let it run on "regular" (89 octane in '79), which is pretty tricky with 10.5:1 compression. And he also tweaked it up from stock 112 bhp to around 140. So it might not be typical mileage.
(It also tested out at around 30ppmHC and 0.0%CO right up until it was "too old" to inspect. Without a cat.)
... And I didn't get the optional air conditioning on mine, either. (Which might account for some of the mileage difference.)

The shifter isn't the issue. The shifter is pretty smooth, although on an odd angle and with a massively long throw.

The issue is the handling. My mechanic asked why I keep an Alfa when I have a Ferrari. It's for refresher training.
I can drive the 328 or the ricer in traffic most of the year and never get near the limits. You can pick up bad habits and get away with it.
But the Alfa doesn't cut you any slack whatsoever.
Turn in too sharp, and if you're lucky, the tires will scream at you. If you're less lucky, the tail will come around. Overcook the entry, and the front will come loose. Lift in a turn, and you'll be doing a foliage tour. There's very little handling "reserve". Get it right, or it'll come unstuck. The car is controllable in a slide, if you're paying attention. But it does tend to slide.
I upgraded mine from 165s to 185 width tires, and it still doesn't have a lot of spare traction.
You don't have to be racing to come unstuck with one of these. With cold tires, they'll come loose as low as 30mph, if you get the line wrong.

They're fun little cars to fling around, but driving them is absolutely an interactive experience. You have to be in two-way communication with the machine, not chatting on the cell phone. There are no cup holders. For a reason.

You do *not* want to take one of these out in snow. (At least, not without a lot more weight in the back.)

Interior parts are getting to be unobtainium. My interior was in passable shape (other than the vinyl seats and door panels) until the last shop. Every time I got it back, something else on the console was broken. (Small lot; they had to keep jumping in to shuffle the cars around.) I didn't opt for the leather upholstery in '79 -- good thing, too, given the damage that Atlantic City mist did to the vinyl, from parking it with the top down.

The canvas tops are pricy, but they keep the weather out. In almost 30 years, I'm only on my second one. (The first was vandalized.)

I still count the industrial grade undercoating I had installed on the '79 Veloce when it was new as one of the best investments I ever made. There are a couple of rust spots behind the wheels, but 29 years and 65K miles later, the underside is still pretty good.

It hardly needs mentioning, these days, given mostly fair weather use. But there's a weather shell for the distributor for a reason. The distributor is mounted down low in Spica cars, and if some mechanic left off the two piece weather cover, water can get splashed up into the distributor when you drive in the wet.

The fuel feed was a problem on the late '70s cars. The "tank filter" is mounted underneath above the rear axle, and will clog even from water. (The Spica pump is very sensitive to contamination.) There were two different recalls on the fuel feed on the '79. Eventually, I moved the tank filter to where it was easier to replace.

Like most Italians of the era, they rot faster sitting in the garage than running on the road. The hydraulic clutch seals will go pretty quickly if the car sits too long.

 

chatter 'Phylotic' had a nice one he was going to sell to return to Europe, I thought about it myself....

I guess it was nice...it was red......

 

Greg, best bang for the buck and style and all the coveted Alfa bits is the series 2 spiders that are still prevalent at a decent price - of course this is my opinion, but set up well they are GREAT drivers and gorgeous to look at. Find a euro - carbed - usual no side marker lights, carello covered headlights, those nice stainless bumpers - EVERYTHING is available - although pricey for 'nos' or repro, but the rewards are sweet!!! Very 'prudent' acquisition at the present time. I know it is redundant, but California cars are the ones you want. All the best in your search.

 

I add that not only are California cars the least likely to be rusted, but in both So Cal and Nor Cal - you always had a lot of enthusiasm for the Alfa Marque!!! Some cars are kept real well.

 

I drove a 1983 spider veloce for 6 years 1986-1992. Not a single repair. Oil changes and brake pads once. that's it. loved it.

as for it being a light car... not what I'd call light. GVW on my car was 2950 IIRC. And the doors weigh a ton. they're about 8 inches thick.

 

I used Alfas for my daily drivers for 10 years. (The Spider and an Alfetta, later the spider and a GTV6).

They must have fattened up the Spiders for crash testing. The earlier ones were several hundred lbs lighter. But then, even today's "ultralight" Elise is over 3000lbs.

But the Spider is also not so well balanced as the alfetta chassis (tipo 75) machines. With the spider's engine and gearbox up front, little of the weight is on the drive wheels. So you can easily break the back end loose with a bit of power and dynamic weight transfer.

It's not a problem when you're paying attention. (It can be fun.)
But it may not be the best car for the G/F's commute before her morning coffee.

Maybe I'm missing something: If the OP's G/F has been through Bondurant or has racing experience, then it's not as much of an issue. But putting someone raised on FWD nannycars behind the (wood) wheel an Alfa spider because it's "cute" could lead to trouble. (Don't driving gloves smear the nail polish? )

 

Couple things here: Not to pick nits, but the Elise comes in around the ton mark (2,000 lbs). It is a very light car.

Second, I too am looking at picking up a Spider as a secondary occasional car for the GF and I. I've driven (and come very close to buying) several Spiders in the past and never got the feeling that these cars were dangerous for the 'average' driver. My GF too has owned a front-drive auto for the last few years (but her first couple cars were manuals) and I have no doubt that she'll be safe driving a Spider around (I intend for her to use it as much as I do). These cars don't have gobs of power and I've found that unless you're driving pretty quickly, they aren't really a handful at all. Under normal circumstances, I see no reason that one of these should bite the unwary driver.

I may be a bit biased, however, as the GF is becoming a decent little kart racer....

 

I also don't understand the comments regarding the "dangerous" handling Spiders either. I have a Spider and now a GTV (same chassis and engine) and have never found the car to have unpredictable handling. The back end gets light in the rain, but the handling of my GTV is utterly predictable both on the road and track. The car moves around allot at the limit, but have to be going pretty fast to find that. Maybe some of the people were driving vehicles with rotten suspension bushings or 12 year old tires, but that is hardly the fault of the suspension design.

One things to look at with the S4 Spiders is interior space. As the cars got older and more stuff was added (airbags, auto trans, factory AC), the interior dimensions got smaller. I had lots of room in my S2 Spider, but can't drive a S4 model without hitting my knee on the larger dash.

I think a Spider or other old Alfa is a wonderful car that every Italian car enthusiast should have in at least one point of their lives. When new, they were one of the most technically advanced mass market cars available. Today, they are absolute pleasures to drive in the world of modern cars designed to isolate the driver from the road.

 

I just checked the reworked lotuscars website with the 2008 models. That sounds a lot more like it. The previous number (3200) didn't sound at all right.

Well, as sitting in gridlock is becoming "normal circumstances", ...

But a bit of "con gusto" driving can get the car a bit light on it's wheels.

Predictable, yes: but you have to be paying attention.

Okay, maybe it's that I have upgraded power in mine, or that I just drive fast.

Or that I've spent the last few years driving around SUV owners who have the reflexes of a lamppost.

When you pay attention, it can be quite fun to skitter the back around in a turn to tighten your line. I just worry what would happen to someone with a cell phone held to their ear, balancing a Starbucks on their laps, lifting in a corner.

Alfa Spiders are a bit like an F-104: if it doesn't kill you on your first flight, you'll love it forever.

 

This one looks like a nice example -- and in California too:

http://www.monzacarusa.com/listings/display_listing/429/1991_Alfa_Romeo_Spider.html