Almost died today, and a lesson learned. | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Almost died today, and a lesson learned.

Discussion in '360/430' started by bizz, Apr 6, 2009.

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  1. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

    May 12, 2007
    26,826
    England North West
    Full Name:
    Steve
    +1
     
  2. mr_bock

    mr_bock Formula 3

    Oct 27, 2006
    1,372
    FL full time
    +1 too

    Lucky, but also quick at the wheel and brakes!!!!
     
  3. $$$=SPEED

    $$$=SPEED F1 Veteran

    Aug 18, 2004
    5,330
    Portland, Or. USA
    Full Name:
    Depends who's asking
    Glad you and you car are OK. A great post and a reminder to all of you "wanna be Mario Andrettis" on the public roads. Anything can happen, anytime
     
  4. rush109

    rush109 F1 Veteran

    May 26, 2005
    8,099
    Montreal, Quebec
    Full Name:
    Joshua McRae
    geez louise thats insane!
     
  5. bizz

    bizz Formula Junior

    May 26, 2008
    364
    Redwood City, CA
    Full Name:
    joe B
    I generally tend to agree with this. It's very frustrating when I get pulled over for doing 5-10MPH over the speed limit and vehicles which are impeding traffic in the left lane driving slower than the speed limit just get to walk. The concept of the left lane being for passing is just completely foreign. I have never heard of a law enforcement official enforcing this and can't even say for sure it's law. It should be.

    In this case, the accident was my fault. Fortunately I collided with nothing. But the semi truck should have been in the right hand lane since it was travelling slowly. That doesn't excuse me from liability, but it certainly contributed to the incident.

    Ordered some new meaty rubber today.
     
  6. scycle2020

    scycle2020 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2004
    3,477
    potomac

    very true and very sad!!!!
     
  7. 360blue

    360blue Formula Junior

    Dec 27, 2007
    292
    Hancock Park
    Full Name:
    adil
    Joe, your Gardian Angel had spread its wings over you. Thats exactly what happened to me on a canyon road turn last year. My 360 took a full 360 degress with inches away from the edge of the road. No one was hurt nor was the car save a few scrathces to the clear bra on the front bumper. Glad you are still here. Adil.
     
  8. DerWebMeister

    Aug 21, 2007
    119
    Columbus, OH
    Full Name:
    Timothy
    If heard before thats how they came up with the number for the Modena...360 When any truck is in the left lane and it appears on the surface that there's no reason for it, bet that there is. A truck has visibility over your head which gives them a farther field of view ahead. A common reason for going left would be to give courtesy to a vehicle by the side of the road such as law enforcement, or a broke down car or truck. Plus remember, it's been a long time since Smoky and the Bandit, but every truck still has a CB radio and truckers talk to each other. A truck may move left before any visible reason to do so because another trucker travelling the other way tells the driver of an object in the road ahead. Consider yourself deaf without one.

    Trucker 1 hears Trucker 2 say: "hey southbound there's a tire in the slow lane, get over to the hammer lane before you hit it."

    Trucker 1 in front of your 360 says:" Yea I got it alright, but there's a fast-mover behind me that's hell bent to get around me and I think he might hit it, I can't block him for long."

    Trucker 2 says: "That'll be one helluva show!"

    Trucker 1 says: "There he goes, OMFG!! YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE THIS... looks like he made it, but just barely!"

    End of narration, but this story happens everyday to me, because I'm a trucker. Car drivers get pissed at a slow truck all the time but rarely give credit that a trucker might see or hear something they didn't. Remember a truck is on the road for professional reasons, most others are there for a short personal trip and don't consider others around them as important contributors to their safety. I have saved many lives by compensating for the inability of others to drive. Save a life or prevent an accident by blocking someone just to have them flip me off when they drive by without realising a close call has just been averted. They didn't see the other side of the highway because the body of my truck blocks their view. They couldn't ask what was happenning and I couldn't tell them.

    You can get a handheld Cobra CB for around a hundred bucks. Plugs into the cigarette lighter for a charge. If you're on the highway, having your "ears on" is a good thing.
     
  9. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    May 21, 2006
    7,398
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Ray
    glad you are still with us :) When the back end of the 360 comes around, it can get pretty wild. Did you have the ASR on?

    I came into a sharp corner a little hot a while back and almost lost control of my car. If there had been any traffic in the on-coming lane, I think I would have wiped out the rear quarter probably. As it was, the back end ended up doing a nice snake sort of S curve back and forth a few times as I counter steered back and forth for my life. To the credit of the car and the ASR, it managed to keep me basically heading down the road the whole time. Still it was pretty exciting :)

    From the sounds of how you describe your incident, it sounds like you were very, very lucky not to end up with some bent aluminum.

    Ray
     
  10. F360-1386

    F360-1386 Formula 3

    Oct 8, 2006
    1,685
    Markham, ON, Canada
    Full Name:
    51216M
    Glad to hear everything is OK after a learning a big lesson which costed just rubbers. That was why I took my 360 on a skid pad to spin it intentinnally and learnt how to control it on the new purchase.

    I just traded the 360 for a 430spider and will go on the skidpad again this Sat. to test out and to learn how to control the wild horse.
     
  11. bizz

    bizz Formula Junior

    May 26, 2008
    364
    Redwood City, CA
    Full Name:
    joe B
    Yes, ASR was on. I can't say that it helped at all, but when the car is in a flat spin I don't think ASR can fight physics enough to get it to stop spinning. But, then again, it all happened so fast perhaps it did help.
     
  12. Mark from Ork

    Mark from Ork Formula Junior

    May 29, 2007
    449
    Miami Biatch
    I think someone mentioned when revving out very high and then letting off the gas quickly (especially in any kind of corner) there exists the possibility of a spin and this is true.

    This is unfortunately where having a real manual and a clutch for your left foot helps you out. It might be a good idea (if you can) when you feel the car start to spin to grab both paddles for neutral. Wonder if/how that would work.

    My car is F1 but last manual monster I had was a Viper and a few times coming around a corner in a low gear revving the piss out of it I let off the gas and car started to spin. Lucky each time my brain caught it fast enough and I would nail the clutch and that's all it takes, just to get the back wheels rotating again.
     
  13. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 World Champ

    These days you have to be even more vigilant. A couple of days ago while driving the daily, I pulled out slowly thinking the lady would let me in as she was approaching a stop light. She saw me and proceeded to drive right into the front of my bumper and wasn't going to let me in. It was deliberate on the part of the bltch. Fortunately I was able to buff out the bumper. Can't be too careful and it really doesn't pay to be overly aggressive.
     
  14. OneofMillions

    OneofMillions Karting

    Nov 8, 2007
    128
    Toronto, Ont
    Full Name:
    Christian L.
    Exactly. I've been lucky enough too experience spinning out under very similar conditions on the track (lucky because it's way safer). Letting up on the gas and making any hard turn at high speeds = you WILL lose the back end in a spin. You need the speed/acceleration to keep the downforce on those back tyres to keep them stuck to the road.

    Question is: I haven't had the guts to try this on the track, can you recover by counter turning and accelerating? or once you lose the back end it's gone? Any experienced 360/430 drivers out there have experience recovering from a spin like this?

    Original Poster: Glad you survived and nice bonus that your car did as well.
     
  15. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    May 21, 2006
    7,398
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Ray
    Yeah, I think if the car is spinning, stopping power to the tire isn't going to make a lot of difference :)

    Glad you are ok

    Ray
     
  16. DMaury

    DMaury Formula 3

    Mar 27, 2007
    1,993
    Ponchatoula, LA
    Man that is scary! Glad you're OK.

    My wife and kids were hit head on 3 weeks ago on the interstate, flipped the truck 6 times and they all walked away. I haven't posted about it yet as we're still getting settled down and over it. So, I know how you feel.
     
  17. gadgetman

    gadgetman Formula Junior

    Dec 21, 2008
    252
    Westlake Village, Ca
    Full Name:
    Curt W
    appreciate the note. i knew there was a reason i show respect to truck drivers. I see sooooo many 'soccer-mom-mobiles' decide to pull right in front of a truck and then slow down or break. They've just got to sneak in. I guess they haven't seen the photo's of crushed mini-vans.
     
  18. bizz

    bizz Formula Junior

    May 26, 2008
    364
    Redwood City, CA
    Full Name:
    joe B
    Ugh. I have no problem getting myself beat up in a wreck- but the thought of my wife and little ones flipping down the highway is just too much to bear.
     
  19. Woojer

    Woojer Karting
    BANNED

    Feb 23, 2009
    114
    IME, it's gone. Very similar to trailing throttle oversteer as a result of lifting off acceleration in a 911. It is a totally foreign feeling, too hot into an apex, lift, and the end sweeps around almost immediately. All is left is to point the car as best as possible to something safe.

    I will never buy another 911 for this reason (and many others) alone.
     
  20. checklist_34

    checklist_34 Karting

    Nov 26, 2008
    168
    can probably take a moment and be grateful for all the ABS, active steering, traction control, and everything else on the F car. I gained alot of respect for Ferrari's in the early days of the web reading about wild crashes where owners walked off. I guess when you're selling 200k+ cars you gotta keep the customers alive. And thats very, very GOOD. Is a Z06 or GT-R as safe?

    Its really, really good to be alive, huh? I spun a car off a track once and came to rest a few feet from a large row of trees. I have average or below eyesight and a tendency to gap out and get lost in my own thoughts and pay little attention to the world around me. But for 2 hours after that I could hear a pin drop in a mall and I noticed everything. That got me thinking alot, about how aging and gaining experience in life might numb us (just me?) a little. As a 20 y/o kid any keg party was a wildly stimulating experience. But these days I can fall asleep at a bar once in a while. It all leads you to bigger stakes and larger risks.

    I flew into Albany, NY a month or so ago. And I was at the time talking with my brother about life and asking in general what we'd do to stay excited in 20 years. What, said I, do people do to keep life interesting as they age? This guy in a crisp suit turns around and says "kid, you take alot of risks, like buying businesses". I said, I already sold all mine. He said a think or two, and I walked off, he walked off, and that was it. Interesting guy, I could probably learn something from him. P'raps one of you are he.

    But back to life and near death. Thank god you lived, but remember now this is an experience that adds to your time on this planet. And, in a way, that is one of lifes little beauties. What doesn't kill us... might not make us stronger, but it certainly does make us more interesting at cocktail parties.
     
  21. OC Speed Junkie

    OC Speed Junkie Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2005
    2,473
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joseph
    First off glad you are ok. Out of control spins on public roads are downright scary.

    In terms of ABS, traction control, and most importantly stability control I would say yes. The differences lie more in the degree in which you can turn them off and how driver aids respond in those various setting. With everything full engaged they are very similar. In terms of which is safest, GTR is going to get that because it is all wheel drive. Short of understeering into stuff head on, not going to get out of your hands. "You no drive GTR, GTR drive you". With everything on even if you did get a slight rotation and buried the throttle, the car just pulls you strait. I have a lot of seat time in C4, C5, and C6 Corvettes of various years. As these cars have seen drastic increases in power, the safety systems have become significantly better. Having had to opportunity on a skid pad to play with several of these cars with varying degrees of driver aids on and off, its amazing how well these systems work together.
     
  22. mjw599

    mjw599 Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Jul 30, 2008
    510
    A Chinese Democracy
    Did you stop and offer her any friendly words of advice?
     
  23. Tonycan

    Tonycan Formula Junior

    Mar 18, 2002
    349
    Here and there
    Full Name:
    Tony C.
    Obviously, there's a major difference in feeling the rear end break loose and a complete loss of traction. In the former, quick steering corrections and judicial use of the the throttle (as you mention) will set you on the proper path--if you feel the onset and react quickly. At the same time--and this is an extremely important point--make sure your eyes are looking exactly where you want the car to go. This is also where TC, ASR, etc. are helpful (provided you have them turned on). In the latter case, however, the complete loss of traction means you are going for a ride and you need to get the car stopped as quickly as possible. At that point, counter steering and throttle inputs are only going to keep changing the direction in which the car is headed. Those of you with track experience may have seen this happen in front of you, with you wondering which direction is the car headed next: forward, backwards, left or right, all of which is occurring because the driver is trying to save an unsavable spin. Just put the clutch in (to keep the motor running) and stay hard on the brake to bring the car to a complete stop/under control as quickly as possible.

    The OP had a terrible experience, but at least he knows what caused the problem. Driving your car hard and fast on the track is dangerous, but the most dangerous part of your day is driving to and from the track. There's nobody on the highway waving a debris flag.
     
  24. psorella

    psorella Formula 3

    Oct 22, 2007
    1,249
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Lino
    #49 psorella, Apr 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    That happened to me on a track day with my 360. Not only did I not have experience on a track , but it had started to rain, and i had the car in sport mode which apparently reduces the ASR somewhat. Anyways, coming out of an apex it seems, according to the instructors there, that I may given too much throttle coming out of a turn and my car went into a free spin. I tried to get the car straight but there was nothing to do. Then i saw the concrete barriers coming and I just slammed the brakes
    and waited for the car to stop. The car was litterally two feet from the wall. Needless to say I sh-t my pants. I 've heard of 360's being twitchy , but this takes the cake. So, I know how you feel Joe, I'm glad you survived your ordeal.

    The picture below was taken by Bernardo after the car came to a full stop. My brother who was my passenger got out quick
    and did not want to ride with me anymore. I went for one more spin around the track, just that I drove like a granny...
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  25. OneofMillions

    OneofMillions Karting

    Nov 8, 2007
    128
    Toronto, Ont
    Full Name:
    Christian L.
    +1000000000 for tracks with few concrete barriers
     

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