ALMS Split

This isn't 2008. There are only 4 or 5 regular LMP's not counting the LMPC's, hardly enough to warrant its own day - not that it would ever be considered.

 

Dealing with traffic (both faster and slower) is a part of racing.

CW

 

The ALMS divides up the different classes for
qualifying but it would be suicidal to divide them
during races as the car counts are paultry as it is.

I can't remember a time when prototypes ran seperately
from GTs except (maybe) in the GTP era when they
ran on street circuits such as Miami and Palm Beach,
would have to go back and look at some of those tapes.

There were times when IMSA ran events particularly
at northeast tracks like Lime Rock and Watkins Glen
where GTPs ran stand alone events and GTO/GTU did
the same on a later date.

Those were the days when fields were flush with entries not at
all like now when ALMS races other than Sebring draw
more than a couple of dozen entries.

BHW

 

Exactly my view.

Also, crashing is an unescapable fact in motor racing. You can regulate as much as you like, accidents will continue to happen.

 

Might be a bit of a deviation from the topic on hand but does anyone know the overall "health" of ALMS and Grand-AM? Are both series' surviving and/or growing? I thoroughly enjoy and support the racing but worry that they don't have enough people sharing my view.

 

I've spent a fair amount of time in SCCA's formula car and sports racer race groups. When I'm in a slower car, I find that the fast guys are super aggressive kamikaze jack+++es who will try anything, no matter how stupid, to get by. When I'm in a faster car, I find the slower cars are driven by selfish idiots unfamiliar with the concept of a mirror. I've concluded that everyone but me is either cheating or incompetent. Me - I'm really good.

 

Having watched you race I can say with certainty that this is totally true.

 

Truer words were never spoken...

CW

 

"There's only two types of drivers; Crazy maniacs that are faster than me and dopey idiots that are slower."

Cheers,
Ian

 

And, these statements are even truer on the street!

Racing actually requires some level of competence. Getting your DL from the DMV? Uh, not so much.

CW

 

The only way they could ever generate enough entries to split the two would be more competitor based rather than trying to be manufactuer driven. IMSA fields were large in the mid 80's when before the factory teams came in to dominate and run off the privateer's whom were merely running for best in class. Even when Holbert was the "Factory car" for Porsche they shared (sold) with customer cars once the parts were proven. ALMS is too factory driven and there will be a very limited number of them willing to all spend money at the same time to have large fields. Besides that most fatory efforts meet their goals in 3-5 years and then they are done.

 

We have considered running a privateer team in ALMS, among other series, and we just don't see the ability to put a credible entry on the grid there for a reasonable cost. You are competing against factory-backed efforts, in all classes, which means you're not going to get the "hot" motors or the latest go-fast bits.

All series run the risk of depleting their entrants to the point of the extinction of the series itself.

The IMSA GT/GTP grids were FULL of privateer entrants and were richer for it.

CW

 

+1

 

I wish they'd just allow FIA GT3 spec cars to run in GTC (minus TCS/ABS). Leave GT to the factory/Le Mans/GT2 teams and cars. Talk about field size.....

-mike

 

Gauging the health in a series these days is
a mixed bag, especially comparing ALMS to
GrandAM.

Since NASCAR is keeping GrandAM on life support,
their bottom line dosent really matter as long as they're
touting Rolex as a title sponsor.

The GrandAM discussion opens a whole can of worms
but having attended a couple of their events at Homestead
now, I can honestly say I've seen more spectators at
club events there than at the DP races.

On the other hand, Panoz funds the ALMS (and refused
title sponsor money until Patron cane along) all himself.
The go at it alone business plan made no sense especially
when we're told there is no budget for them to appear
at our events in SoFla gratis (huh?).

I spoke with one of the main players in ALMS at
Sebring and he seemed upbeat about what's happening
there (but then again, that's what he gets paid for) and
he told me things are trending up.

The ALMS events seem well attended at least whereas
crowds at GrandAm races seem non-existent. ALMS corporate
support seems to be on a good footing but not enough for them
to buy live TV time it seems and there's where things
are muddy.

Of course today, businesses measure their success against
the amount of Facebook and Twitter subscribers they have,
even though all this seems to be little than hot air as proven
by Facebook's IPO debacle.

Since Panoz dosent seem to listen to anyone but his immediate
family and dosent have to answer to anyone else for that
matter, as kong as he keeps the ALMS things would seem
to be on solid ground. Stay tuned.

BHW

 

IMHO, GrandAm's DP class is a) a bit of a joke and b) a spec series. In these, perhaps, we find the reasons that few are attending.

As to the "joke" comment, for example, the 458GT has been restricted so it's not faster than the DP's. So much for the "highest" class in GrandAm. And, the 458s are not the only cars that have this handicap just so the "big boys" don't get their feathers ruffled too much. Furthermore, the DP cars remain hideously ugly. They DO NOT harken back to the swoopy, but utilitarian lines of the 962s, 333SPs, Spices, Mazdas, Toyotas or other WCS or IMSA GTP class cars. There were surely misses back then, but by and large, I think the GTP/WSC cars were some of the more attractive designs. Just my opinion, though.

Second, the creation of a "spec" series, which was intended to reduce costs for the entrants, is fine, but it doesn't produce the relatively unlimited dollar ALMS/ELMS technology. I suppose there are some ways in which competition can end up being reduced by technology advancements and monies spent, but the fact is that ALMS is FAR more like the old prototype racing in which manufacturers vied using the most advanced technologies they could develop. That also happens to represent a sort of automotive Darwinism, in which the victor earns their laurels from the kind of hard work, innovation and grudge-match attitude that spurred on the 512/917 battles of the 1970s. There are indeed many people who would be terribly excited to watch another prototype battle between these titans. And, add in Audi and a few others for good measure, and, Voila!

Anyway, the formulaic DP racing will never rise to that level of connection for viewers.

CW

 

Agree 100%. I've never liked the DP cars due to their looks. They all look the same!

ALMS does it for me.

 

This might be better suited to PM, but how much does it take to run a decent privateer entry in ALMS?

 

I have no qualms about disclosing it. First, though, it depends on what you're counting.

You have to have the basic infrastructure in place such as a shop facility, rig & trailer and all the hot pit set-up goodies (refueling rig, air guns, war wagon, etc). So, I'm not counting those. Nor am I counting the car and spares package.

With those disclaimers, to run the entire series credibly, we figured a minimum of $2MM per season. Probably considerably more to take it up to the level of the factory-backed efforts. This doesn't include any wind-tunnel development time, either. I'm just talking support for the car(s) which includes transport for the team and cars back and forth, the post-race tear-downs, the engine and gearbox rebuilds, fuel, tire and other disposables, pro-driver compensation (if that's how you roll), testing and practice dates. And, of course, that's just the ALMS calendar (9 events). If you are planning on crossing the pond and doing Le Mans, add more in.

Again, this is merely to put a credible GT class entry on the grid. To compete on a par with the factory-backed efforts or in a higher class (LMP1 or 2), the prices only go up from there. My numbers are pretty dated, though, as the last time we seriously looked at this was a while ago.

Napolis probably has more current numbers on this. And, there might be a few other folks who can chime in on this with more current information.

CW

 

So factor in the car and the other things you didn't count, would $1 Million cover that? Guess it depends what car you run...

Reason I am asking is that I am interested in the economics/business side of racing. Thanks for being willing to discuss. There doesn't seem much (if any) solid information avilable to guys like me who are not "in" the racing field.

 

Very good question. I have no idea btw, but suspect at least the "front runners" do. Which begs the question, are there any front running arrive & drive teams though?

Surely not many of 'em are in that business out of love for the sport however?

I think I'd also throw in ~$100K for a good simulator if not already an "incidental".

Cheers,
Ian

 

Only Level 5 / Scott Tucker. Then you make meeeeellions!


And of course bring a lot to the sport.