Alonso is at it again:

it is ignorant to say that Alonso has the 4-6th fastest car on the grid based solely on qualifying times.(The example was used on page 1) A qualifying car and a race car are two different things. Alonso is in contention for fast laps throughout each race. During the race the cars are running 4+ seconds slower than the qual times. In many cases Alonso has admitted that they have sacrificed qualifying set up to help race set up for the following day.

From what I see Vettel helps set up the car the way he can use it. There is a chance that he could go to another team, assist in setting up the car to a way it works for him and be just as dominant. Everyone would again say that this is only because he is in the dominant car…. How many teams would he have to do this win to get any credit? Even Newey has said the feed back is the best he's ever gotten and that Vettel can take care of the car better than he has seen and far better than MW can.

There are a lot of things that people overlook when they are upset that their team is falling in the points and making up more excuses every other day….

 

I have been reluctant to acknowledge it because things have seemingly come so easy to him, but with his performance record it's impossible not to conclude that Vettel is the greatest F1 driver of all time. He's at four WDCs at an age where Prost hadn't won his first. By the time Vettel's through, any of you that doubt that he's the greatest are going to look pretty foolish.

 

I give respect to Seb, but anyone not seeing that Adrian Newey is a ENORMOUS advantage to giving him the car he wants/needs is not being realistic. If you put Newey on Ferrari next season, Fernando will win the title within 2 seasons…actually, he would win it NEXT season because the sport hit the reset button.

Make no mistake though, the car is engineered to maximize the skills of the number 1 driver. It's Webber's job to adapt to that and succeed…it's probably just a case of him not being able to do that.

 

Alonso's not saying anything that loads of F1 fans aren't saying!

Does Vettel have a car advantage?: Yes he does! - And, it's been aided greatly by the change to the Pirelli tyres mid season that suited the Red Bull better than it's main rivals.
Anyone who doesn't think that Red Bull has a car advantage can't have been paying attention for the last couple of seasons!

Vettel has made the best of what he's got, he's blatantly got a great talent for driving fast, and he's extremely good at judging grip levels when it comes to cold tyres, but he hasn't exactly been pushed and tested by anyone this season has he?

A standard (boring) Vettel race win goes like this (SPOILER ALERT!):

FOR QUALIFYING:
1) Get pole position.
2) Wave finger at the camera's to annoy everyone!

FOR THE RACE:
1) Get to turn 1, 2 or 3 in first place on lap1 and then scurry away from the rest of the field over the next 5laps to gain a 5~6 second advantage whilst the other drivers are still finding the grip.
2) Maintain the gap for the rest of the race (increase the gap if possible).
3) Get the fastest lap.
4) Ignore the teams instructions and set a new fastest lap.
5) Continue to ignore the team and attempt to improve the fastest lap time.
6) Win the race.
7) Do doughnuts somewhere around the track to please the crowd.*
8) Get on the radio and state: "Yes!.....Yes!.......That's what I'm talking about!.......I love you guys!.........I love all you guys!"
9) Get out of the car, clench fists and then wave finger to camera to annoy everyone.
10) Try to convince everyone that it was a much harder race than it looked.

*The doughnuts are a recent addition that appeases the crowd and reduces the chances of being booed on the podium - After all, everyone loves free doughnuts!


If Red Bull has an advantage over the rest, why isn't Webber always 2nd?: Why isn't Massa always tail-grabbing the back end of Alonso's car every race?

The 2013 cars and tyres have suited some drivers better than others.

It's most likely that at Red Bull, the car and the tyres suit Vettel better than they do Webber.

Could it be that Red Bull always make sure that Webber's car isn't quite a match for Vettels?

Mmmmmmm......... How come if there's an issue/failure with a Red Bull this year, it's always Webber's car and never Vettel's?

How come in races such as Suzuka, Red Bull's pit-stop strategy seemed to be geared to ensure that Vettel would have an advantage? Mmmmmmmmm...........

I guess Webber must just be mega unlucky!

If it's not the car, and Vettel is such a superior driver to the rest, why do so many of the drivers actually rate Alonso as being better driver overall?

Why shouldn't Alonso have similar thoughts to many of the race fans when it comes to Vettel?, and why shouldn't he express those thoughts when asked?

Or should the drivers be banned from having and expressing their own opinions about other drivers now?

 

You could say that he's reverting to form. The "nice" Alonso is a recent thing.


That doesn't mean that what's he's saying isn't correct though.

 

4th-6th fastest car on the grid isn't just based on qualy, it's based on the overall race pace of the car which is often tallied from a combination of low-high fuel runs, qualy etc etc. I don't know why giving credit to Alonso equals taking away from Vettel...why are seb fans so defensive?

BTW, Alonso managed to put Ferrari into P3 earlier today at Brazil. Seb was 1s ahead of anyone for pole...if you think that's all seb well, I give up!

And fyi, the only two instances I can remember this season that Alonso set the fastest lap time on a Sunday was at Abu Dhabi and it was because he was on a brand new set of softs and had someone he was slip-streaming/DRS'ing behind half the lap.

The other was in Canada I believe, and in very wet conditions which he has regularly proven to be supreme. Most memorable as of late was last year during the German gp, putting yet another inferior/much slower car than RB onto pole position.

 

Alonso is in a fistfight with both hands tied behind his back. The Ferrari was severely penalized when they changed the construction of the Pirellis. On a good weekend, he has the 4th-6th best car…both Bulls, both Mercs and Grosjean's Lotus are better, but of late you have Hulk's Sauber which has been better in races.

Fernando has a right to be pissed. We know he has to measure his words because Ferrari will blackball him if he criticizes the car (a la Prost), but he can't maximize his capabilities in his current car. And I know it eats guys like him and Hamilton alive to see Seb just walking away with victories as if he is that much better a driver.

 

Pirelli mid season tire change killed Ferrari's chances of taking the fight to rb. Next year should be different.

 

I'd be happier if F1 had dealt with the issues that caused the tire mess.
As it is there won't be sufficient preseason testing of the new rubber under representative conditions.

 

I can't wait for KIMI to kick his ass next year!!








At least I hope so.

 

I think Alonso has done a great job driving what he has. Id be frustrated in his position as well.

Do I think that Vettel was the only reason that he is .6-.7 faster in Brazil at the moment? not particularly however when all of the cars are setting laps at 2 seconds plus slower than their practice times you have to realize that it now takes far more driver skill to pull that kind of gap on the rest of the field. I am not sure what you drive or if you've ever raced in the rain but if you have you have know that all of your set up is out the window. Your lines are gone, your braking is gone, your traction is gone it takes a tremendous amount of touch to get the car to move forward at a pace like they are.

I can say that theres a chance that Vettel got lucky, got in Web's tire tracks and made a quick lap. Alonso may have done just the same. The ability for both of them to do that is down to their skill and they need a car do do it in.

So many people say Alonso has the best skill on the grid, so far this year he's been one of the more exciting drivers to watch, his give up of position to hulk last week in T1 just to take it back on the inside was great. Id love to see that every week.

I think that with rain in Brazil the rest of the guys have the best chance at a win over RB. One mistake and they have a good shot. Vettel has already run off the track once in practice and its a long race in the rain and I think its due time for him to slip up. If he does everyone will be over the moon about his mistake and if he doesn't everyone will be blaming his car for being too good.

We will see how it goes.

 

I'm getting quite bored of reading comments suggesting if the car were the true star that Webber would always be P2. How do you know, for an absolute certainty, that the car Webber is driving is identical to Vettel's?

 

as with everything F1 we're just left to guess. There is little chance they are identical!

 

I do not find Alonso's interview disturbing or out of place: on the contrary I tought his answers and comments were well balanced and appropriate.
RB has one best car that is given to Vettel and a second car that is not as good that is given to Webber.
I am not taking anything away from Vettel, but the difference IMO is too great to be just the driver.
Also, in spite of the wins and of the dominance, I do not regard RB in the same league as Ferrari and here is why:
Ferrari and probably only Mercedes produce the frame, the engine and everything else for their cars.
And since they also have production cars for sale, that at least thoretically, can benefit from the experience in F1, can be considered true Constructors.
Everyone else, is just buying expensive components on the F1 marketplace and have no relationship with anything on the public roads of the world.
Can they be considered Constructors in the same league as Ferrari and Mercedes?
In my opinion NO: they are just PR stunts employing highly technical staff to attract sponsors and make money.
Is that bad? No, but to me they rather look like those University teams that compete in electric cars or in remote controlled cars.
The difference is only in the money available to them.

 

There is the complete truth. We saw how much difficulty 2012 tyres caused Ferrari, how the car worked well on 2013 rubber so the return to 2012 was disastrous for Ferrari.

The real point is that RBR and Horner were able to get what they wanted with the help of Mercedes.....F1 is simply about politics and money (and lots of that!!). NB the premium paid by FOM to RBR for reasons that are not really clear!!!

 

True, but to be honest, Lotus was screwed with the tyre change too and they managed the situation a lot better.

Hopefully it will be better.

 

And I hope that then they don´t mess with the tyres again.

Ferrari probably had no hope, but without the tyre change Lotus could be fighting for the championship right now, and with their current financial situation, they reeeally need some wins.

Unfortunately the sport needs Red Bull and Mercedes´ money but not an "independent" team like Lotus.

 

I think Ferrari designed their 2013 car quite radically to suit the 2013 tires. Ferrari won China and Spain with that combination. Once a car like that is run on different tires, it looses much of its efficiency and that is almost impossible to regain.

 

I heard on the broadcast yesterday that LDM said that Alonso's driving this year was an 8 out of 10. What a bonehead! How can a professional in any field, Alonso in this case, not get frustrated eventually if they're not being given the tools to succeede and do the job, and on top of that get criticized?

 

Maybe he is rating Alonso's performance on what he believes his potential is? Maybe he believes Alonso could do more? Maybe he is an idiot.....

 

This.

 

It is so funny here in this section:

1.) Vettel is better than Webber because he is getting the better car from Red Bull
2.) Vettel is better than the rest because he is sitting in a Red Bull
3.) A Red Bull is better than the rest because they have Adrian Newey
4.) If Adrian does not help alone they are favoured by the FIA with the tires because another boring year Red Bull winning everything was exacctly what the FIA and Bernie needed ;-)
5.) The NASA was never on the moon
6.) The CIA killed JFK

Did I forget any conspiracy theory???

To make things sure: A good part of Vettels success is because he is sitting in the best car, so far we all agree because there is certainly no one that doubts that the Red Bull is better than the rest.
But this does not say anything about Vettels abilities to drive a F1, over here one could get the impression that every monkey could win in the Red Bull and it is just Vettel because he is favoured over his teammate...

Just look at the practice at Brasil: Vettel was driving out of the pits and on his first timed lap he was 1 second better than everyone else! Someone asked whether we believe that this is all because of his abilities? I ask back: do you really think that is just because of the car and that he has no talent? In the wet???
Second question: if Vettel is an average driver why did Schumacher always say that he will be the one who is following and who might beat his records? He said that long before Vettel drove his first race in a Red Bull...So who are you to think that you know better to judge the talent of a race driver than the one who was driving against him?

To the question why it is always Webbers car that breaks down:
Possible answers would be that Webber is driving harder and stresses the car more, this would be an argument against Webber and pro Vettel
Another explanation would be that Vettel has the better race mechanics who are looking after his car. If so, why are they better, because of more talent or because of a better motivation and team spirit? The last would be again a credit to the driver (Vettel) as this was exactly one of the main keys in Schumachers successful years: his mechanics would have walked through fire for him because he was "their champion".

Now to Alonso: with all his statements against his car he is not really helping to get success as this is not very motivating for the team. Did you ever heard talking Schumacher talking that much negative about his team? And that is exactly the difference between Schumacher and Alonso in his days at Ferrari: Schumacher wanted to have success WITH Ferrari as a team, Alonso wants to have success in a Ferrari for himself, to become more famous. Doubt that and just remember his year at McLaren, he is not really known for being a team-player...
Talking down the car (4th to 6th fastest car) is nonsense to make himself better than he is because everyone says he is driving well over the limits of the car...
Just when looking at the last race in Brasil where Alonso and Massa were able to overtake the Mercedes easily it becomes clear that the Ferrari is not that bad in the race as some of you are stating. I think that this year Ferrari, Mercedes and Lotus where playing at the same level (behind Red Bull) as one could see in the constructors championship as well, one some weekend the one car was better, on another weekend the other. The result of this theorie would be that Alonso was the best of the six drivers in these 3 cars but not that Alonso was supernatural because he became second in the "4th-6th fastest car".

Conclusion: neither is Alonso that great as some of you are stating nore is Vettel that bad, My personal guess is that the top drivers Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton and maybe Railkkonen are basically driving on the same level if they would be in the same car. They are all good drivers and the one with the best car wins. Even Senna, who is rated by most as the most talented driver ever (I do not want to judge on his character here) did not win every year because he also needed a good car to do so.