Guys and gals, help me out here as I still don't understand Ferrari's decision to keep Massa for next year. These are the arguments: - Apparently Fred loves to have Massa as his wingman because Massa is no thread. But: - Massa is useless. He doesn't help the team, he doesn't help Alonso, he doesn't steal away any points from Alonso's competition because he doesn't even get into the points. He doesn't help with the WCC either. So if it is true, that Ferrari re-hired Massa for next year just not to rock Alonso's boat, then how on Earth is Alonso going to deal with a guy like Vettel for 2014? If Fred can't have a useful wingman for 2013 (somebody like MS, Sutil, DiResta, Perez) because his ego/emotional balance/whatever is so fragile, then how is he going to get on with a Vettel who is just as fast as Alonso? None of this makes any sense to me unless Ferrari's/Alonso's game plan is to secure a WDC this and/or next year and then for Alonso to retire. And if that is the plan, who will get the 2nd Ferrari seat in 2014? And please don't say Massa. Or I will have to find another sport to watch...
Even though I dont like Alonso one thing can be said for him is his burning desire to win. Plan on seeing his career stretch to Schumacher proportions.
Am thinking right now, is it a case of better the devil you know. On the whole though I think it is pretty confusing, what the real aim of it is, is Alonso really calling all the shots?, he is showing he doesn't need the help.
Would you still say that when e.g. Vettel wins this year's title by two points which could have easily been covered by Massa had he challenged Vettel somewhere in this whole season? Winning WDCs in a highly competitive field is all about collecting points. And if you have a worthy #2 who gives you the right of way but steals points from your enemies, well, then that's another story.
Great points. I know it is a head banging situation, I really thought Ferrari would get a young gun in to learn from Alonso to be honest, seems they are stuck in the mud in that respect.
Indeed. BTW: Didn't mean to turn this into another Massa bashing thread. The real question is really how is Alonso going to deal with Vettel if he refuses a good #2 for next year? To me it looks like they (Ferrari and Alonso) are counting on him winning at least one WDC and then retire. Otherwise Ferrari will have a Senna/Prost or Alonso/Hamilton situation all over again and that'd be WW3 compared to e.g. Alonso/Perez for next year. As I said, I just don't get it. Unless somebody has already primed the escape hatch.
Firstly your questions are not "arguements", they are just simple questions. 1. I highly doubt Alonso will be retiring in 2014 and with the new turbo era, of which Ferrari is at the forefront in engine testing, the question is who will be his teammate? 2. I take your implication that MS, who is the most successful F1 pilot in the history of F1, as being just a "wingman" insulting,arrogant,blind!! I am not here to argue with you but you are all over the place with your post, you seem to be menopausal.
I don't think he's that good, but he is an exceptional driver. Alonso also has tougher contemporaries than Schumacher did in his prime. All the best, Andrew.
Ferrari seems to be the only Money is no object team. I dont think their decisions have anything to do with WDC points. Luca's ego on the other hand is the driver of how things play out. Alonso's (or MS's, or....) insecurities play second fiddle.
There is a reason we may never understand, as to why Ferrari will keep Massa at least an additional year. One reason we can understand, who is really available, that has a contract that can be bought out, and would Ferrari be willing to cough up the money for that driver? Nobody? Ferrari has not paid its primary driver's retainer for some time, I am not sure if they actually pay all of Massa's. So one reason may be that LdM is unwilling to cough up a few million $$ to buy out the contract of another driver, for example Kimi. Kimi's Lotus contract expires in 2014. Kimi controls his ego, so he may piss off Alonso on the track if he beats him, but off the track Kimi probably would not get involved in politics. That could make for a winning two #1 drivers team. Kimi is just one example. Vettel? If Alonso has a "fragile" ego, then he would say no to Vettel, and so would Santander since they pay his salary. If Alonso wins the WDC this year, I do not think his ego will be as fragile, if it even is at all. I would love to see the language in Alonso's contract with Ferrari, and how much control, veto power, he really has. So who else would have been available, and it looks like 2014 has some definitive secret meaning to LdM and Ferrari, to sit in a Ferrari for only one year? I am guessing nobody. I do not like LdM, but he is not stupid, he looks to the future. I do not like Alonso, but to me, he is the absolute best on the track. Ferrari has not built a winning car for years, and Alonso has taken that mediocre car and is leading the WDC. I do not think that Massa is any worse than 90% of the drivers currently in F1, but I do think that Alonso is that much better which makes Massa look bad. Which may bring up another reason for Massa staying around. Possibly LdM realizes the car is nearly crap, and that no one else available would do any better than Massa. To think differently would suggest knowing more than Domnicali, and none of us have the information he has to make decisions. Unitl 2014. Then it will be an entirely new ball game for Ferrari, and much of the F1 field. How many contracts expire at the end of 2013? And I doubt Alonso retires in the next 2-3 years.
I'll go with your hypothesis (for a moment that is ): So why didn't LdM pick a solid 2nd driver for next year? I get it that he made his premature comments about Perez, so he couldn't retract them without loosing face. I also get that he never wants to hear the name Schumacher again. But why didn't he select some other solid driver as the #2? Because he once said that Massa is good enough and he doesn't want to loose face there? Is that it? <rolling my eyes>
Agree that it does not make sense. I don't see Seb/Alonso on the same team in 2014. I don't think it's an issue of FA having a fragile ego, I just don't think you can have 2 legitimate WDC drivers on a team at the same time in modern F1. When has it ever worked? Senna/Prost? Alonso/Hamilton? Hamilton/Button? Those types of drivers expect a team to commit itself to providing them the resources to win a title. When you have 2 legitimate WDC-quality drivers, you end up trying to focus on both, but inevitably one will get pipped one race weekend, the other on a different weekend. What failed for Alonso at McLaren was his belief the team would be 100% focused on making him the WDC, but that didn't happen. Hamilton apparently felt likewise (this season). I think it just makes for a bad dynamic because no team can be 100% focused on making 2 drivers WDC.
Totally agreed. So what gives? Alonso retiring or Vettel never/not yet coming to Ferrari in 2014? If Vettel isn't coming (or if Alonso leaves in 2014), then why not select a solid wingman for Alonso now? It wouldn't be a stop gap anymore. I cant fit the puzzle pieces together.
I have a feeling that LdM's comments about Perez had a different meaning and were not premature. Perez had already been negotiating with McLaren when LdM made that comment, Perez certainly did not get the call just last week from Whitmarsh. I am still curious as to the Vodafone/Telmex connection, if any.
Andreas, like I said, who would have been available for one year? What ever is happening in 2014 at Ferrari, has already happened.
Since it is Ferrari we're talking about I'd say half the field plus everybody from GP2. Unless you're a top driver in one of the few top teams, I think pretty much everybody else would ditch their HRT/Marussia/Caterham/Force India/Williams to get a shot at glory in a Ferrari. Plus all the reservists who are currently unemployed or are doing Friday morning practice duty. Very likely true. Not arguing that. Just trying to make sense of it all.
I dont see Alonso going anywhere. His comments about retiring at Ferrari did him no good however with LDM's Machiavellian thinking. Why the extra year ? Even the Great LdM has to explain to the board why he has three WDC's on the payroll with only one driving. Not that they might be willing to whip out the checkbook just that they might question his decision making process.
With all the changes this week you will forget F1 over Massa lol??? Not me whether he stays or goes has zero impact on the sport or my watching it. The earth shook this week. Massa? Hardly a cosideration with MS being fired and LH blowing fuses moving MS out and himself in. Then Perez to Mclaren! Massa keeps you awake at night LOL!??? Really? I love F1 now more than ever. The end of this season just got very very interesting. Next year even more so. Im happy Im an F1 first and Ferrari fan 2nd.
Alonso had always said he would be content to retire after matching Senna's tally of three WDC's. That might have changed of course, but it looks as if after this season he will have accomplished his goal in F1.
First, I'm the biggest Ferrari fan out there, and love my car, but this isn't a matter of Ferrari of old. The mythology is still there thanks to Alonso's fantastic driving ability, but the current car just isn't there yet. Do you remember Seb's season of just winning so far out in front of the pack that the cameras didn't even follow him during the race? It was all about second place. Well, Seb had the best car setup during that season. This year, Alonso doesn't. He has a big red dog. Massa has the same. Alonso not only has special driving skill, but he has the passion and fever to fuel himself to win. He will be in it beyond Senna's 3 wins and may even surpass Michael. He's taken Clifford to more wins than technically possible. Massa has been a good quiet "company man" for allowing the team to experiment on his car during actual races (tires, wings, moving over, setup, unscheduled pitstops, etc.) all in the name of getting Alonso the win. If Ferrari had two winning cars, I'd be mad at Massa. Unfortunately, Ferrari is still working out technicalities before and during the races. For now, Ferrari needs a guy like Massa because of the cars they put out on the track.
I would not see the wisdom of anyone currently driving for another F1 team, perhaps with multiple years left on their contract, to come to Ferrari for only one year and possibly never getting another F1 ride again. Especially if it is common knowledge in the Paddock that the current Ferrari is mediocre. Ferrari does not have that old majic to its name that would cause a line-up of potential drivers, unless the car was a proven winner. Alonso admitted to the press about one month ago that the reason he was leading the WDC is breaks due to weather. Rain equalizes the cars, and with his skill, he capitalized on this. Knowing this, why would I want to drive the Ferrari for one year, probably look no better than Massa as he has had more time to understand the car and the team, and having my F1 future likely go down the toilet? This would hold true for current F1 drivers and even GP2 drivers. You stand a great chance of looking bad, when in fact, you might be a future WDC. There is a learning curve to a new drive, a midfield driver is not likely to jump ship and immediately understand the new ride. Unless I was near retirement, I would never do that, even for a ride in a Ferrari. Who were those two recent drivers given the chance to drive for Ferrari, and now where are they? Badoer and Fisichella, gone into racing oblivion. Even the other Schumacher got a DTM ride with Mercedes. But no matter, the more I think about this, the more sense this makes. If I were LdM, I already have my driver line-up for 2014 in my pocket. Can't be any worse. Andreas, if you want, I will give you the formula to my magic margarita, sure to put you asleep. Possibly it is not sleep, but you will not be thinking about anything.
