Alonso vs Hamilton

+1

Unfortunately that's been posted over and over but the Hami haters choose to ignore it and cling to their conspiracy theories.

 

Great link!

 

We can all thank 4re nut for sharing this great resource with Fchat.

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=279266

 

You didn't see him go from 20th to 6th last race? He passed anyone who was in front of him all the way to P6 (incl. Alonso and Button). I honestly think the McLaren was struggling to hang with the Force India once they were on lighter loads. He really couldn't get close enough to Sutil on the long straights. They probably adjusted the downforce to give him better traction when the car was heavy on fuel. Note: he was 2nd to last to change tires

I think this is a pretty solid mischaracterization of his driving skills. The guy is easily the most aggressive passer on the grid and breaks up the monotony of "passing in the pits".

I understand that many here don't like him though, so it's easy to pick at little thing to knock him.

 

+1

It's a case of : can't see beyond the hate I'm afraid ..

 

+1, and Sutil did use the car he had very well. One of the drives of the race.

One cannot include Alonso, Massa, etc. as LH's passing victims as this was in the run to the first corner and hardly a by themselves passing situation.
Pete

 

That's funny, I'd take Alonso over Hamilton every day of the week. Hamilton still makes mistakes and has run off his tires pushing too hard. Like someone else said, Jenson doesn't seem to have that same problem. Alonso will lose less races by doing something silly like Lewis will. Other than that it's pretty much a toss up. The main reason that I wouldn't take him over Alonso is that I simply don't like him. Which is probably the reason why you favor him over Alonso.

 

agreed. although i do think kubica could do some specials things with the right car, and i still won't write off nico rosberg or the great schumacher just yet.

 

So you are suggesting Alonso didn't drive as well as he was capable of because he had other things on his mind, making him perform worse, allowing Hamilton to beat him? That's quite a stretch, IMO. I think he was certainly putting in his best effort in '07. I think he was pushing like he never pushed before, because he desperately wanted to beat Hamilton, and had never experienced a teammate giving him a run for his money before.

I absolutely think Alonso's drive in '07 was absolutely indicative of his capability.

 

Say what you will about him but Alonso never seems to quit. Not on a season, not on a race.

 

I thought the comment about Lewis stepping in and beating Alonso in an identical car to be funny. He did have an identical car because he copied Alonso's set up. Hah

One thing no one has mentioned: Alonso is the the only current driver to beat MS to the WDC.

 

I think its funny he could drive a car as good as Alonso with Alonsos set up....hah

 

Precisely.

Which is why I think it's crazy to think he wasn't giving it his all in '07. I have no doubt he was.

 

I've never once argued that from a performance standpoint he wasn't on his a-game, but when you have the weight of the world on your shoulders it's bound to slow you down.

Like I said, I don't think we'll ever agree on this. No biggie.

 

I'm sure a few people could as well. The problem is getting the car to that point. That's why Alonso is a more complete driver than Hamilton is. As soon as he no longer has had Alonso's set up info his results weren't the same. Still aren't. His best year was the first half of 07. He's never looked that good again.

 

Well, I'm only talking about his performance.

I don't care if he was emotionally satisfied and professionally treated @ McLaren. I just want him to drive

 

But things that happen around you DO affect your performance. We are taking hundreths of a second stuff here and drivers have to be 150% self-confident to get that last milli-second, so yes I agree with RWatters that there was a lot of **** going on that would have affected Alonso.

Even the fact that he simply did not fit in with the team would have affected his on track performances.

As you all say lthough, like the MS of old, Alonso never gives up and if anything can be accused of over driving sometimes.
Pete

 

So, you're saying a few people can out-drive Fernando if they have his set up? I SERIOUSLY doubt that...no way, period!

I'm also assuming you're discounting the second half of last season when you say his results haven't been the same since he no longer has Alonso's set ups. He took a pig of a car in 2009 and had the best second half among all drivers. Certainly he benefitted from Alonso's experience earlier in his career, but he's also come into his own in terms of helping to develop the car.

 

Disagree. A good setup means the car is well balanced and easier to drive ... so yes of course other drivers would benefit from having a car well setup. Alonso of course would also want a well balanced car, etc.

Pete

 

Great thread, I still think in the same car as Vettel both Alonso and Hamilton would blow that Kraut into the weeds. However, MS in his prime would blow both of these two into the weeds.

 

No I'm saying several drivers can be very quick over one lap with a good car. Fisi in his prime, Trulli, for another, etc. Alain Prost was also the same way. If his car was perfect even Senna couldn't beat him. The problem was that they only got the set up right once in a while. Alonso is a more rounded driver and gets the set up right more often which is why he wins more consistently. Hamilton got Alonso's setups and was quick for one lap, sometimes quicker than Alonso was. His race pace was also impressive so he did well. Once he didn't have access his game slipped. Even now, there are times that he looks like he's missed the set up. As far as 09 goes, I don't know what kind of input he had in developing the car. With the testing ban, it's anyone's guess. I do know that Pedro DeLaRosa is considered to be a great development driver. The team, including Hamilton, worked flat out and did a great job but no one really knows how much, it any of it was down to Lewis. From my understanding it was a problem with their front wings that held the car back at first. Once that was sorted out, the car came to life.

 

I think your clutching at straws now Luis, the testing ban applies to all drivers thus negating Alonsos input somewhat, besides time marches on and I figure Lewis is not doing to bad at all with feedback, Button also maybe ok, but at odds with how Lewis drives, so given that, if Lewis can drive a car that was set up for Alonso by Alonso his style then are very similar, on all levels. Alonso has more spent more time in the sport and by that fact alone he would be better all round.

Without digging the past up to much, as we have butted heads numerous times over this, but:
I would presume Alonso would not want to help out any team mate that can drive a car as fast as him, and we can assume that fact from his time at Mclaren, and I do not blame him for that.

As I said earlier IMO there is a cigarette paper difference between them, love em or hate em ...both awesome.

 

Four titles. That's getting it right slightly more often than once in a while.

 

So, in other words, Fernando is only an average driver but excellent at set up? If other people were able to set their cars up similar to him, even back-markers would out-drive him?

I don't agree at all. FA was the fastest driver AND could control the race during his championships at Renault. I simply think he and Hamilton are at the front of the line as drivers. We'll see if it plays out that way this season (I think Vettel's great also, but he has a clearly superior car to both of them so it's difficult to gauge his skills versus theirs).

 

I referred to Prost in a direct comparison to Senna. In a direct comparison Senna was generally quicker. When Prost got the car perfect, he'd dust Senna off completely. Certain drivers are able to drive cars that have issues better than others, Senna was a perfect example. When the car was perfect however Senna couldn't touch him.