Also buying a 456 but....

You could probably find all this by searching, but I'm in a good mood...

The 456 first came to the US in 1995. Note that this was not the first year for the 456 (came out in 1992 in Europe, I believe) but the first year they came to the US.

There were no 1996 456s in the US, because the US started requiring OBD-II, and Ferrari didn't have OBD-II done yet.

The 1997 456GTs had OBD-II and remote unlocking, and also was the year the automatic was introduced. Most 1997 456s are GTAs (automatics), although there are a few manual cars.

In 1998, Ferrari introduced the 456M. They made minor changes to the engine (the firing order, I believe), changed the front end styling (no more cool reverse scoops), eliminated the adjustable rear spoiler, and changed the interior styling pretty significantly. Most 456Ms were automatics, although there certainly are 456M manuals around.

At some point (after the introduction of the 456M), Ferrari came up with a solution to the problem of the windows sealing poorly. The result was a campaign done for no charge to the customer, even for long out of warranty 95s-- my car was done in 2003. The invoice for the window fix on my car was right around $10k, but Ferrari picked up the tab. Only buy a car with the window fix done.

IMO, the 456 to buy, if you can find one and are willing to search nationally, is a 1997 6-speed. You get the two main benefits of the 456M (OBD-II and remote unlocking) with the superior (IMO) styling of the 456GT.

Keep in mind that in order to work with the computer in the 1995 cars, you basically *have* to go to a Ferrari dealer. Those cars can only talk to the SD-1 (and later versions), and generally those are only at Ferrari dealers. With OBD-II, independents can do much more with the 1997 and later cars.

I own a 1995 456GT, and I love it. A good one is a phenomenal car for touring-- fast, comfortable, reliable, big trunk. They also make excellent daily drivers. They certainly are not inexpensive to maintain, but they are wonderful cars.

 

Sorry but what is OBD-II?

 

ODB-II is a universal connection used to check emissions on American cars.

 

If the window fix has not already been done will Ferrari still do it?

Thx

Howard

 

Thanks

 

Not for free, for sure. Possibly not at all-- you'd need to see if the kit is still available. And not all dealers were qualified to do it-- my car had to be shipped to Seattle, for instance.

 

And the advantage of OBD-II is that anyone with a $100 scan tool can connect to it and read and reset the codes.

 

Thanks Don, appreciate the help.

All the best,

Howard

 

On Board Diagnostics version two = OBD II

 

Any local Pep Boys or advanced auto sells the OBD2 reader. I've used it on my Jag a few times instead of having to take it to the dealer to find out what is going on. Really comes in handy.

 

very good writeup

 

It sounds like your father "drives" his cars as opposed to some folks on this forum who treat them as they were made of Lalique Crystal instead of metal and plastic. Good for him. They are cars after all and Ferraris that are driven, really driven, are generally the better for it.

 

You can find a *lot* of information on the automatic if you search. The short answer is that yes, if it breaks it is VERY expensive-- $52,000 is the replacement cost which sticks in my head, although I might be off by a little bit.

The good news, according to some of the experts on this site, is that they rarely break, especially if they are serviced regularly. In fact, I believe that no one around here had ever heard of one actually failing, only that they were very expensive if they did fail.

 

Actually, the M's were MY 99-03. The pre-M, OBD-II, fix the freakin' windows cars were 97s and 98s (mine is a 98). Many say the M interior is more ergonomic. The main exterior differences are (a) revised grill/foglight placement, (b) simpler hood, without the sexy reverse scoops and (c) fixed instead of motorized rear spoiler.

It's true that Ferrari sells the automatic only as a single part ($52k is the number I remember as well) but no one seems to claim that it's anything other than a well-engineered and reliable unit that should give no trouble if properly maintained.

As far as the windows are concerned, it took three attempts by two different shops to get the fix right on my car - once by FoBH and twice by Wide World. So even if an ad says "windows done" it doesn't mean they don't leak. It's about an $8k job (I didn't pay for it as WWoC stood behind their prior work - very classy, that).

Also, watch out for bizarre electrical gremlins such as seat motors and immobilizers with minds of their own. Other scary bits are said to include motor mounts and air shocks (haven't experienced this - yet). Also, the motor for the spoiler (on the pre-M cars) can fail and you'll probably never know.

You will need a mechanic who is both knowledgeable and trustworthy. One thing about on-board diagnostics is that a lot of different issues result in a "check engine" light. The most common, as you may know, is an incorrectly fastened gas cap, but in mine it turned out to be an intermittent short in one ignition wire. Imagine how I could have been taken to the cleaners on that one!

They are great cars, buy and enjoy.

 

i am about to buy one and have been looking for a few months. in my search, i ran across one where the automatic tranny had failed and had been replaced with a manual version, presumably for far less than $52k. this is a question that i have asked about many many times, without any answers, but there you have it. it must be possible since i have witnessed it. btw, the present owner had no clue about the switch....bought it afterwards i guess and never wondered about the fact that his manual was labeled a 456m gt A ...

 

A few corrections:

1) All 456Ms did not include the window fix from the factory. I have personally looked at a 2000 car which did NOT have it. To be honest, I don't know if they ever put it on at the factory. If it was performed correctly, it shouldn't leak-- mine certainly doesn't, and I do live in a very rainy area and do drive it in the rain.

2) If the motorized spoiler on the 456GT fails, there is a warning light right on the dash which will tell you. I've only ever heard of one that failed (they do occasionally get rocks jammed in there and need to be cleaned, and they do need to be lubed on occasion), and that was from someone on here, and honestly it sounded dubious (they claimed someone had disconnected the light?)-- was it you, Ronbo?

Also, a comment: I saw a 456M GT (manual transmission) in a magazine, with a "GTa" badge, so they did make a few that way. I assume the one Ross is referring to was actually converted, but don't assume so from the badging.

 

2) If the motorized spoiler on the 456GT fails, there is a warning light right on the dash which will tell you. I've only ever heard of one that failed (they do occasionally get rocks jammed in there and need to be cleaned, and they do need to be lubed on occasion), and that was from someone on here, and honestly it sounded dubious (they claimed someone had disconnected the light?)-- was it you, Ronbo?

You're right about the warning light, of course, but my point (which I didn't make very clearly) was that it doesn't affect the handling of the car in any obvious way. And no, no one ever disconnected any of my warning lights, except the one that said, "Approaching major service interval."

 

and speaking from experience...

Valve guides are starting to fail on the 456s. We've got reports here of about a half-dozen 456 engines having worn valve guides. Search on this topic, a $12-15K repair job if (when?) this happens to you. Cars as late as '01 have reported this problem, usually in the 20k-ish mileage range.

 

IIRC it was the Forza 456 buyers guide

 

When evaluating a potential purchase, what should I look for to determine if the valve guides may have a problem? Also, what percentage of 456s have had needed valve guides replaced?

 

I don't know for sure about the valve guide issue (hasn't been a problem for me, personally).

As for the windows, the best thing is if you have documentation. You can also look at the windows-- if you see significant gaps between the front windows and the rear quarter windows, most likely the window fix has not been done. One of the things they do in the window fix is to actually replace the rear quarter windows with larger ones.

If they'll let you spray it with a hose, that's probably a good sign! (FYI, I would have no problems with letting someone spray my car with a hose).