Alternate Blower Job | FerrariChat

Alternate Blower Job

Discussion in '348/355' started by sdiamond, Jun 1, 2012.

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  1. sdiamond

    sdiamond Formula Junior

    Mar 25, 2009
    304
    Kildeer
    Full Name:
    Steve
    No not what you think. So after taking out the alternator again took it to the shop. Bench checked it and it's okay. Metered the 3 connectors (S<IG<L) in the plastic connector all 12v. Noticed something new though... At idle it meters at 14.4v but the RUB is that when the fans kick on that is when the volts drop to mid 13 and the dash light starts flickering. When the fans shut off the volts go back up to 14 1/2 and the light goes out. OR, pushing the idle up to 2,000 RPM or higher it seems the light goes off too. If the fans are offI can turn on the lights crank up the radio put on the a/c still fine. It seems it's those damn FANS! So, how do I check them and what am I looking for?
    OAWG - Once again with my gratitude
     
  2. sdiamond

    sdiamond Formula Junior

    Mar 25, 2009
    304
    Kildeer
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Ernie, No Doubt, BillyBob, Todd? Anyone?
     
  3. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    100,220
    Mount Isa, Australia
    Full Name:
    Pap
    Interesting issue.

    Perhaps a fan might be starting to seize up or is failing which is drawing too much current on the electrical system.

    You need to remove the rear inner wheel wells and see how much resistance is there when you spin the fans.

    They should spin VERY freely. If they are ok, then one of them might be drawing too much current. Start the car and run it till the fans come on. Check with an amp meter to see how much current draw each fan has and compare both sides.
     
  4. sdiamond

    sdiamond Formula Junior

    Mar 25, 2009
    304
    Kildeer
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Thanks Pap, we can always count on your sage advice. I'll check it out and post results. Seemingly I can move past the alternator for now, at least I've gotten much faster at taking that damn thing in and out so many times already!
     
  5. sdiamond

    sdiamond Formula Junior

    Mar 25, 2009
    304
    Kildeer
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Pap says :"Check with an amp meter to see how much current draw each fan has and compare both sides. "

    Not sure how to do that since new to using the meter but, tried something a little different. I know how to do the volt check so I have an extra battery on hand so I metered the battery [11.72v] and connected each of the three fans and checked again. The two on the right had the volts go from 11.72 to 11.42 when running, the one on left 11.72 to 11.29. Since they all seem to spin freely (?) is this an indicator that the left hand fan is the likely culprit?
     
  6. sdiamond

    sdiamond Formula Junior

    Mar 25, 2009
    304
    Kildeer
    Full Name:
    Steve
    #6 sdiamond, Jun 2, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2012
    when I say running I mean off the spare battery not engine running...

    To help me understand the process, the meter has
    200mv to 600v from 9 to 12 o'clock on the dial
    200 to 2M from 6 to 9 o'clock with the ohm symbol
    600 to 200 from 1 to 2 o'clock with a V and a squiggly mark
    and 20u to 10A from 2 to 5 o'clock

    10ADC is the left socket
    COM I know is the negative lead spot and
    V OHM mA on the right which I am using for volts
     
  7. bosshog8

    bosshog8 Formula Junior

    Mar 13, 2011
    448
    Pinelands NJ
    Full Name:
    Demetrius
    Not possible to check the amps with your meter. An Amp meter must be inline and even if you cut it in your meter only goes to 10 amps. Those fans draw way more than 10 amps. The easiest way is to use a clamp style meter like this: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41W6D1JJ8RL.jpg
    That way you don't have to cut it in. Just clamp around the wire you want to measure.

    If they spin freely and seem to run at full speed then I see no reason why they would be faulty.
     
  8. sdiamond

    sdiamond Formula Junior

    Mar 25, 2009
    304
    Kildeer
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Okay, it does look like there is a sticker on the back of the fan that has "40A". I thought 40 amps was too high so it did't occur to me. They do seem to spin freely to me or at least all the same but it also seems clear that the volts drop way down when the fans kick on and that is what triggers the dash light. So you're saying that without checkiing the amps there is still no clear answer right?
     
  9. bosshog8

    bosshog8 Formula Junior

    Mar 13, 2011
    448
    Pinelands NJ
    Full Name:
    Demetrius
    Your alternator may not be up to snuff in terms of it's amperage output at idle. If the volts is fine at 2000rpm then the alternator is doing all it can and just don't spend time in traffic. :)
     
  10. sdiamond

    sdiamond Formula Junior

    Mar 25, 2009
    304
    Kildeer
    Full Name:
    Steve
    That's funny, I always do my best to work toward the redline :)
    The bench test on the alternator showed 100 peak amps as the output
     
  11. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,614
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    In addition to what Pap said.

    What do the brushes, and slip rings look like?
     
  12. sdiamond

    sdiamond Formula Junior

    Mar 25, 2009
    304
    Kildeer
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Pap, I don't know the condition of those since I did not do the rebuild. What I was planning today was to temporarily wire in a switch for each of the three fans to be able to shut off each one at a time and watch the volt meter and dash light. Wouldn't this help identify which one may be the culprit? Still don't have an ammeter.....
     
  13. bosshog8

    bosshog8 Formula Junior

    Mar 13, 2011
    448
    Pinelands NJ
    Full Name:
    Demetrius
    Your Denso alternator should have a peak output of 140 amps. Peak is also not measured at idle but at a higher typical cruising rpm.

    Quick breakdown: Car running = ?amps, 2 fans for water cooling = 80 amps, lights = ?amps, high beams = many amps, oil cooling fan, blower motor....well you get my point. 100 peak amps is not going to cut the mustard......for very long.
     
  14. sdiamond

    sdiamond Formula Junior

    Mar 25, 2009
    304
    Kildeer
    Full Name:
    Steve
    D, I'll cehck the records but don't know that it wasn't the original alternator. If the car is 17 years old I can live with 5-10 years on this one. Do other 348-ers swap out the Denso for another? A higher regulator? What is the better solution?
    When i said peak 100A I think the shop's meter maxed at 100 so pinned on their dial could have been higher ? I did buy an ammeter today so I think I can check the output line on the alternator also and the meterr goes to 400a so it should read it correctly. We'll see the saga continues.
     
  15. bosshog8

    bosshog8 Formula Junior

    Mar 13, 2011
    448
    Pinelands NJ
    Full Name:
    Demetrius
    I agree 5 or 10 years out of it would be fine. I don't know what the solution for a denso alternator is because I have a Delco. I'm sure there are posts about it but I do know that the regulator won't affect the amps. The windings affect the amp output.

    I would assume the shop had a load tester greater than 100 amps because cars have had 100+ amp alternators for more than 20 years already.

    If you have the meter then clamp it around the battery positive and wait for the fans to come on. Then record the difference for fan amps. You will be able to unequivocally see the load in total that way also.
     
  16. sdiamond

    sdiamond Formula Junior

    Mar 25, 2009
    304
    Kildeer
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Okay D, new wrinkle. Got it all set up to test and the driver's side fan reads between 13.5-14.0; The passenger side top smaller fan seems to read between 6.3-6.5A; the lower passenger side fan reads zero because it doesn't come on. Curious because when I hook up an external battery it does in fact run. Didn't think to check the alternator positive cable but I can if this information is equivocable
     
  17. sdiamond

    sdiamond Formula Junior

    Mar 25, 2009
    304
    Kildeer
    Full Name:
    Steve
    There seems to be a 25A fuse for the left hand fan and a 20A fuse for the right hand fan (why can't they say drivers side and pasenger?)

    Which is right side and which is left?

    There are "control relay actuation" for left and right side. Replace all fuses and relays?

    Can they be tested while I'm waiting to order new ones?

    Does the passenger side fan only come on as temps go higher (aka, backup fan) or are they supposed to run simultaneoulsy on a 1995 348?

    Is it more likely a fuse or a relay or a temp sensor?
     
  18. bosshog8

    bosshog8 Formula Junior

    Mar 13, 2011
    448
    Pinelands NJ
    Full Name:
    Demetrius
    Everything in a car is labeled as if you are sitting in the car. Driver side is left and passenger is right (in a left hand drive car)

    I'm pretty sure both fans are supposed to turn on simultaneously. I know mine do. I would check those fuses and relays you mention. If one turns on then then the temp sensor is working, unless there are 2 which makes no sense.

    As for everything else I have no idea.
     
  19. sdiamond

    sdiamond Formula Junior

    Mar 25, 2009
    304
    Kildeer
    Full Name:
    Steve
    but what if you're left handed? just kidding. Bought two new relays and a handful of fuses today so I'll just replace the two relays and fuses for both sides and see what happens. Since I know the right fan works when poweered directly and it doesn't turn on with the others I'm "hoping" a simple fuse/relay swap helps out. Still doesn't make sense to me that the draw on the alternator and battery would be worse if a fan didn't come on? Oh well, in electric world not a lot of things make sense.
     

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