ALternative solutions for 2-fan/shroud replacements? - 84 QV

Well, I'll make a pretty strong bet that the original 35+ year old radiator fan/s are much less efficient than more recent fan/shrouds, right?

My 84 Mondi QV has an original SINGLE fan/shroud, so I'm looking at options for a dual-fan and shrouded modern version that will fit my car (Houston - hot hot and humid, and traffic!). I just do not want to spend hours and hours in snake-infested Texas salvage yards, measuring fan/shrouds in other cars; this information is very difficult to dig up on the internet -- I have to track down individual models, which change almost yearly -- very tedious and not all in one website.

A Toyota Camry (or Corona?) version was mentioned in another thread, but when I checked dimensions online, it seems much too big for our radiators. The forum member who was successful in this adaptation could not remember the exact car model details.

I measured the core area of the Mondial radiator, and it measures 12.5" x 25.5" -- and 13.25 x 26.5" to cover top and bottom rad frames.

I really do not want to use thru-the-fins zip ties, so am thinking I'd fabricate over-the-radiator top mounts much like others have done ( I have lost the link on FC to those hooks).

1) Are there others who have used more-modern dual fan/shroud adaptations?
2) Did you go with shrouds that mounted AGAINST the rad core, or against the side radiator metal frame, away from touching the core?
3) I'd also be interested if you have used separate thermo-switches for each fan, so that both do not come on at the same time? Did you use adjustable temp senders?
4) also, anyone use the "slow-start" thermostat switches?

Any other ideas, recommendations, cautions?

Thanks.

 

I can't speak for Ferraris specifically but I did put in an aftermarket radiator for my track car and had to buy matching fans. The car was used for lemons racing so it's subjected to 8 to 10 hours of solid abuse on the track.

I never bothered with shrouds nor did I worry too much about looks. I had both fans triggered to a relay so they ran when on (no temp control). Adding temp control is easy as there are several temp triggered relays you can buy.

My brackets were just aluminum bars I bent into brackets to hold the fans flush to the radiator

Two key lessons:
1) buy a good quality fan and the biggest one that will fit your radiator and/or thickness limitations. For me, I went with SPAL. Some fans claim higher CFM numbers but You look at the mouse print and or YouTube videos, you'll find they measure these numbers with low static pressure (aka limited resistance like radiator fins) And they quickly lose airflow capabilities when stuck next to a radiator. For me, I wanted to most airflow possible so I had one pusher fan on front and one puller fan on the back offset mounted so they would cover 76% of the radiator.

2) size the wiring accordingly as good fans will draw significant current. My application could be argued as abuse (8-10 hrs at Sears point per day) and I noticed that a little of my wiring was getting melty. I caught it in time but it definitely had me worried. The culprit was not the wires going to the fan from the relay But the short segment of wire in the pigtail at the relay itself. These wires were just a little thinner than the stuff I ran to the fans but when I noticed them getting a little hot and melty, I quickly switched them out. Don't make my mistake especially with a car You care about more than my crap can racer.

 

Gunn - great story. Never heard of Lemons racing -- 8-10 hours of continuous driving!
Good advice about fan quality AND about fan size wiring.
I have noted in the past that the pigtails that came with my aftermarket fans were always thin wires compared to the wiring that I laid down to hook them up!
Did you go into the motor to solder on new leads all the way down to the fan armature??

 

24 Hours of Lemons
- Its a truly great series and worth experiencing even as an arrive-and-drive driver once. There have been true 24 hour races but most races are Saturday+Sunday during the daylight hours. A few people have 'iron manned' the entire stints but most of us mortals recognize that your ability to concentrate and navigate safely through a field of 150-170 other cars on a track that might host 30 nascar teams starts to fall off after 1-1.5 hours. For us, this was about the fuel consumption of our stock tank (17 gallons) on our tbird with a windsor v8.
- It used to be 50% theater (a good car theme) plus 50% racing but at least on the west coast, it seems to have descended more into racing. There are other series (or were in the beforetimes), like Lucky Dog and ChumpCar, which dispense with the theatrics altogether.
- Even if you start with a '$500' car, you will still spend $3-5K prepping the car with the necessary safety equipment to get it to its first race (full cage, tires, fire supression systems now, plus maintenance). That's less than a used set of wheels in Ferrari money but its a decent amount of money for some. That's one of the reasons I loved my tbird so much. Its still about 600LB too heavy to be truly competitive on the west coast (even after gutting everything including the excess wiring in the car) but its still a fun drive with 240HP-ish, firm Bilsteins, and IRS AND the parts are practically convenience store pricing (piston heads for a 5.0 windsor are ~$99/set) .
- I don't think anyone has raced a proper Ferrari yet (aka bought a jacked up body, sold off enough parts to bring the vehicle down to $500, and shoved any engine they had in it to make it move) but there are been some homages of varying quality. My personal favorite was the Tikirossa. Having just blown $400 on bamboo to build a tiki bar at my house a few months ago, even correcting for prepandemic pricing I can totally see the effort, love, and $$$ that went into this glorious build. The only thing that might make my heart twinge more would be a Fiero powered Ferrari/Lambo chassis. If one non-ferrari belongs into one of your Ferrari calendars, someone should sneak this one in.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15367901/the-best-hoopty-ass-ferraris-in-24-hours-of-lemons-history/

Back to Your Fan Project
- It wasn't the pigtail that came with the fans that nearly got me; if you buy a proper fan, they don't want the headache of burning customers project down either. The pigtails that nearly ruined my day were the ones that came with the socket for my cheapie bosch style relays (the ones you can get in large packs from Amazon/eBay). At first glance, the wires coming out of the female sockets look decently thick BUT when you look at the # of metal conductors inside, you realize its mostly for show. The solution is to get a 10ga wire, stick it into a spade connector, and replace it in the female connector or just attach it directly to the bottom of the bosch-style relay. I have all mine tucked into a wiring box so its not sketchy looking (except on a "real" car, my all weather box wouldn't be some old eotech/gun case)
- Looking at my records, I bought the following fans:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/spu-ix-30102048 - 16" pusher, pulls 19A, spall recommends a 40A fuse (likely for startup) so size for that.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/spu-ix-30101504 - 12" puller, pulls 13A, SPAL recommends a 25A fuse
- Puller fans are about 20% more efficient that pushers, so says the internet (and it never lies), so I don't recall exactly why the puller is smaller than the pusher on my setup. I suspect its because I couldn't find a 16" puller and a 12" pusher at the time, but I dunno.
- There are OTHER quality brands out there but check youtube for bake-offs done by nerds. Some are clearly as good/better as SPAL and others are garbage when you test in real world applications.
- Something like this will work if you want to start the fans at a certain temp. Its cheap technology.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/dcw-dc-0444
- In your shoes, I might try the largest puller fan I could fit on the radiator and if its insufficient, add a secondary pusher as your next project. Its already Sept so if you are in TX, you might not notice until next year.
- Oh, as long as airflow going into the front doesn't have an easy way to spill around the radiator (meaning air coming in from the front pumper doesn't have an easy way to spill out the bottom before going through the radiator, I don't think a shroud (so all air passing through the radiator MUST go through a fan) is necessary.
- However, having the plastic bit to prevent air from taking the path of least resistance and going around the side or downwards after entering the front grill vs through the rad, does help. At least under track loads, was good for 20F in my application. I haven't stared too close at the mondial yet but I'm not sure how big a deal it will be on this car.

 

Gunn....ok, again, great info.
Ref Fiero engine in a Ferrari for Lemons, how about a Ferrari engine in a Fiero!
On second thought, prob best to go with a bullet proof Ford, Chevy or Mopar with cheap and plenty parts.