Alternator/water pump belt failure, any theories

Guys, I would appreciate any thoughts.

I had both rubber accessory belts break yesterday, one is labeled Dayco, K5/199830, the water pump belt/alternator belt. The other belt has come off its pulleys, I can see it hanging out of the bottom of the car. But it is jammed where I can not get to it, until I get more room under the car to work on it.

My theory is that the K5 belt broke, and somehow caused the other belt to come off it’s track also.

I was able to limp the car to my personal garage. It stalled out as I pulled in front of my garage. The K5 belt puked itself out onto the driveway, just then. That’s how I recovered that broken belt.

I no longer really trust anyone within 700 miles to work on the car. So I am gearing up to try and replace these belts myself. I will give Daniel(Ricambi) a call on Monday about replacement belts.

I have read a couple threads here about replacing the belts.

The now broken belts were replaced less than 2000-3000 miles ago. During a major service. And the K5 belt, that I am looking at, looks virtually new, except for the fact that it is now broken.

Here’s my question. Any theories on why this would have happened? I guess my best idea would be that one or both belts were incorrectly tensioned at the Ferrari dealership that did the major? (A water pump was replaced during that service also). So that belt flew off, and then caused the other one to come off?

Also, if anyone has any secrets that come to mind, about replacing these belts. I am all ears. And will continue looking through old threads (The one I printed out was one where Terry and 355Gary were discussing alternator removal, and belt tightening).

 

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My apologies. I only saw two belts in this diagram. Not counting the timing belt in the back of the image.
As I said, one belt, I do not have access to right now. It is jammed where I can not get to it.
The other belt has two numbers on it, 18422 068 0805 and 199830. And K5. According to at least two threads, one here on FChat, for Dayco belts, the first two numbers indicate the year the belt was built. So I suspect the 199830 = built 2019. But I am not expert on reading those codes. If it is the other number, 18422etc. Then maybe the belt was built in 2018.

 

Photos of broken belt I was able to access. Another belt is off the pulleys and hanging down below the engine. Maybe there is a third belt that is either still on the pulleys, or off track, and trapped by the metal sheets that are underneath the car.
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Seems like a very good idea, for the $20 they cost from Ricambi. OTOH I have not had a belt break…ever, until this case. In a bit over 40 years of driving. You usually can tell if they are loose by a squeal etc.

 

Yes. Gauges were all normal. We will see when I get it all opened up.

 

Update. I looked at the pulleys on the alternator and AC compressor and they both spin freely. As does the tensioner. The water pump belt, up above, looks brand new and is fine and still in place. A photo of the destroyed alternator belt is below. It looks older, but it has been through the wringer, so, for now, I will give the benefit of the doubt to the Ferrari dealership that did the major and assume it was changed out for a new belt.
As I do not see anything strange. My plan is to replace the AC compressor belt, and the larger alternator belt.
Alternator belt: I understand how to release the tension to replace the larger alternator belt, there is a central nut on the tensioner (A in diagram above), that has to be loosened, and then the bolt on the bottom(B) of the tensioner needs to be rotated clockwise to loosen that assembly, so hopefully the alternator belt can be put in place and then adjusted to proper tension after.
For the AC compressor belt, I have read threads here where people have replaced the alternator, but, so far, I do not see a thread where people talk about the procedure for releasing the AC compressor, allowing one to fit the compressor belt. There appear to be at least three bolts holding the AC compressor in place (two of which are circled in the bottom photo), and then a separate adjustment bolt (circled also on the top of the photo). The three bolts appear to be not especially easy to release, tight quarters.
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I will have to see if something, like a band clamp, came loose on the top part of the engine, but I don’t think so.

No one has been working on the car for a while. Hundreds of miles since the hood has been opened. All the under trays were in place. This all happened after a friend, him driving, but with me in the passenger seat, took the car for a bit of run, maybe 20 miles. We cooled it down. Parked it for 15 minutes. And then I was returning it to the garage when this all happened.

I was sure I was going to see either of the accessories had not been tightened up. But everything looks normal, tightened down. There were a couple wires, that were connected, but seemed a bit close to where the belt would be, for example one of the AC compressor wires, but I have a feeling that is just packaging
efficiency.

I will attempt to put it back together, and see if I see anything strange (but, for now, without the undertrays). I think I know how to do the two belts.

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Sounds right. C and D lock the position. E is the adjusting bolt. I was skeptical of the English directions. As the Italian ones mention bolt E. But the English ones do not.

 

I did not know that, so I appreciate the input, but I was worrying about it once I saw everything looked okay with the car off, and not warmed up-that one of these pulleys/tensioners might be freezing up during use.
Side point is that the stop button inside the car was depressed/engaged, as it usually is when I am driving the car. But I do use the AC occasionally, so if something was wrong with the pulley, it might cause the belt to wear.

 

Agreed. No. Both dials inside the car were/are in the off position. And the stop button was/is still depressed/engaged.

 

Minor update. Releasing nuts/bolts C and D: There is not a lot of room to work on these bolts, but I got them loosened up which allowed me to rotate the alternator toward the engine. In theory allowing me to mount the belt for the compressor. But. Something is preventing enough movement. The belt will not quite fit over the two pulleys. I am taking a break.
A side point for those trying this at home. Maybe I should have released the tensioner using points A/B in the photo below. Getting the compressor belt onto the main pulley, required me to carefully thread it between the tensioner and the main pulley. If I had released the tensioner. It might have been easier.
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AC compressor belt installed. Next time I will be an expert. This time, it took a lot of time. Looking at the compressor from below the car, in the photo below, you will see 3 circled areas. The most obvious is an adjustment bolt in the center. Flanking that screw, are two hold down bolts (17mm). These bolts must be loosened. One of them requires you to also have a 6mm hex head to keep it from rotating as you try to release it. The central screw, in the photo, must also be released, which will give you room to push the compressor toward the engine and fit the belt. One does not need to mess with any other bolts.

Hint for new players. Accessing the bolts to release the compressor is difficult, but if you reach your arm UP through the engine cradle, you can get a better angle on at least one of the bolts. The center bolt, and the flanking bolts correspond to bolts E, C and D, in the image labeled compressor belt tension image above.

 

I am having a problem getting the alternator belt installed. First I loosened the central bolt on the tensioner. Next there is a bolt at the tensioner 6 o’clock. I rotated this bolt clockwise. This clockwise rotation of this bolt brings the tensioner down, I can see that happening, so that the belt is more in line with the main pulley, and the alternator pulley, creating more slack in the belt. But even with all the adjustment released, it has so far not been possible to get the alternator belt installed. Just not enough slack in the belt. I will keep thinking.