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Discussion in '360/430' started by vv23, Sep 18, 2014.
Please keep us posted
My yellow slow down light is fixed. I finally gave in and took the car in to replace the F1 fluid and bleed using the SD3 computer. Wish I had done it sooner. I've read so much here on FChat about F1 issues and now I believe (as others posted) flushing and bleeding the F1 every few years--like brakes--may be required.
been getting the same, red slow down, then F1 light, whatever gear i am in, it doesn't shift up or down, stays there... few secs later they all disappear, and back to normal..
if i slow down and park aside, it goes to neutral and doesn't shift till the lights go off, and goes back to normal.
i used to get slow down light only few times, took it to specialist, and they didn't find anything.
but lately both slow down and F1 light, so i took the car to dealer, they diagnosed it for 1 whole day.. doesn't show anything with them too.
they checked the F1 system ECU, and F1 pressure... seem all fine.
is it solenoid too?
So I just went through what I call an entire f1 system restoration, new clutch and hill throw out bearing. Apparently The root cause was a throw out bearing(ferrari said it was replaced 3 years ago, original was still there) the entire system taken apart cleaned, 4 solenoids on the power block replaced and new pump. The system is complicated and thank god I have a great mechanic that figured out the issues. Everything is working well now. Unfortunately I know the f1 system in and out now ... not what I wanted. Lol.
Red slow down is a different issue - it's a cat overheat warning which isn't linked to the F1 system. Are you sure it was a red light and not amber?
Yes.. red slow down, and got the small F1 indicator that comes on the right side of the dash.
I have been at the receiving end of the infamous SLOW DOWN warning (amber) with my 2005 Ferrari F430 F1 Coupe for a while now, so I thought of share my experiences and observations.
The exact issue I refer to is wherein the SLOW DOWN flashes in amber (meaning it is an issue with the the e-diff) on the dash and the car won’t shift gears.
Scenario 1: If you are fast enough, irrespective of the gear you are in, you can keep cruising in that gear for exactly 40 seconds since the SLOW DOWN first flashed. Then the SLOW DOWN sign will disappear and everything will be normal. I remember just one occasion, when the paralysis lasted just 7-8 seconds and everything went back to normal.
Scenario 2: On the other hand, if you are slow enough, the transmission will automatically pop into neutral and you will need to wait for exactly 40 seconds since the SLOW DOWN first flashed. Then the SLOW DOWN sign will disappear and everything will be normal. In this scenario, I have managed to switch the ignition off, wait for 5-6 seconds and start with everything normal again on several occasions, which means in less time that the 40 second duration. At times, this did not work.
As mentioned by many others in the past, it has been described as being very erratic, meaning no one can really say when exactly it will happen. It happened with me on several occasions. Below are my observations.
1) Never happened on a cold car. Usually always happened after I had been driving for a bit, say at least 7-8 miles.
2) There was usually always a decent gap between two recurrent episodes. It never happened twice in, say, in a couple of minutes. The recurrent episode usually always happened after at least a couple of miles or more.
3) We have a lot of speed bumps in our area. I noticed that it happened more often when I went over a speed bump. Out of inquisitiveness, I even enquired with my technician if it could have had any connection with the speed bumps. Of course, I was told there was no possible connection whatsoever.
I did a lot of reading on forums to somehow try and get to the bottom of the issue. On one of the forums, I read that the F1 pump (also referred to as the E Differential solenoid or Electric pump) could be the issue in many cases. The F1 pump heats up, causing malfunction. Apparently even Ferrari noticed this issue and therefore their new (248083) replacement F1 pump is much bigger than the old one (247223).
I read online that someone was offering an aftermarket F1 pump with a heat stay and that it resolved the issue for a lot of folks out there. So I decided I’d go for that and ordered one right away.
The F1 pump Electric Motor 12V DC with heat sink for 430F1 cost about USD 510/-
It came with a Relay 12V DC 70Amp for F1 pump Electric Motor that cost USD 59/-
Let me point out that my original F1 pump would take pretty long to prime, say maybe 15 seconds or so.
I received my new pump and instantly noticed that it would prime in about 7-8 seconds, which got me to believe that it was indeed the F1 pump that was at fault. After that, other than a couple of bleeding issues, I had none for a while (a couple of months). Then the same thing started all over again. Same SLOW DOWN every now and then. I’d like to point out here that my new pump also now takes a good 15 seconds or so to prime.
I got in touch with the guy I bought the pump from and he says the issue has nothing to do with the F1 pump at all.
Anyway, while I was on one of my drives (say about 8 miles from home, meaning the car was all warmed up) one afternoon, I thought I’d conduct an experiment. I made sure I had an open stretch with not much traffic behind me (just in case the SLOW DOWN showed up) and then began to shift gears abruptly. So I hit the throttle and as the car went faster, I went into 2nd, then 3rd, then 4th, then 5th, then 6th and then back again into 5th, then 4th, then 3rd.
And just as I had presumed, the SLOW DOWN showed up.
I parked the car, waited for the SLOW DOWN warning to disappear, then started off again and did the same, abruptly shifting gears. Once again, the SLOW DOWN warning showed up. Did it again after a while and it happened again. This is the first time I had the SLOW DOWN warning show up thrice in just about 2-3 kms.
Now I know why I frequently had this issue at speed bumps. Cause usually when coming to a speed bump, I’d check gears and come from maybe 5th to 2nd in like a 50 mts or so. That’s probably what caused it, the event of gears changing abruptly. This is also probably the reason why the SLOW DOWN warning occurs less when one drive in automatic transmission, because the gears don’t change abruptly.
From that day on, I have driven the car about 4-5 times (over a period of a month or so), either in automatic or manual transmission, without ever changing gears abruptly when driving in manual. Even while approaching speed bumps now, I let the gears drop down themselves and don’t manually shift. Guess what? It hasn’t ever happened again, not even once.
I'd also like to point out that I recently had my clutch done up by Clutchmasters USA. So the clutch is almost brand new.
Can someone suggest if I need a new F1 pump (also referred to as the E Differential solenoid or Electric pump)???
Or should I be checking something else???
The system needs a check over by someone experienced to rule out issues elsewhere in the system, but as a guide - if you don't have issues with the F1 part of the system I would be looking at another E-Diff bleed to be sure, then the E-Diff solenoid.
Doublecheck your Hydraulic lines/pipes EV1, EV2, EV3, EV4, EV5 > make sure they not aftermarket!
In my case the previous owner replaced 2 pipes for aftermarket ones. I replaced them back for new originals and never got an Amber Slow Down anymore.
Unless they were leaking it was most likely coincidence because the previous owner didn't bleed the system properly following replacement. There are quite a few people using lines made up by hydraulic hose suppliers who don't have issues; on some Maserati's there are valves in the hoses to make F1 operation quieter but on the F430 they are simply regular braided lines.
If the F1 system is working OK (why I asked) I would rule it out. The E-Diff circuit can have its own problems despite running from the same pump & accumulator.
Fully agree with you on the bleeding, but I was told by the "experts" the aftermarket lines could have a different coefficient of expansion, which could interfere the pressure in the lines in hot circumstances.
Probably it was a commercial persuasion , but I (my wallet) tend to believe him as my "amber slow down" issues never occurred again.
So guys, do you mean even if the car needs bleeding or whatever, it won't show in the SD device?
Cause dealer, and another Ferrari specialists garage checked with SD and they both said everything looks normal and doesn't need bleeding.
I know that my lines are still original
I'm having this same problem! Very frustrating, and it's happening more frequently now that the warm weather has returned.
2005 F1 Coupe
SLOW DOWN light after hard driving with frequent shifting. Then, it locks the current gear or drops to neutral and locks out the gears for about 1-2 mins. About half of the time, the F1 fault light will appear but not always. After about 1 min, all lights disappear and it's back to normal for quite some time.
My Ferrari dealer cannot find a fault and already swapped the eDiff solenoid.
My next steps? Bleed the system, replace the fluid, replace the F1 pump? I hate to throw parts at a problem
Just had an "e diff failure" in an 08 Scud. Very intermittent I had also noticed longer priming times.
The motor can be replaced with aftermart unit for $300. If it's motor related, mine seemed to be as it also changed the "humm" noise to a different pitch. Then I heard a grindingish sound once.
Changed the pump - all is well. Car just turned a 59.5 w a passenger at Lime Rock- no more issues.
Your excellent discription inicates the pump is unable to keep proper pressure in the system. My $.02 is you change the pump and I bet your problem goes away. You will need to bleed so a computer is required.
Also the stock Ferrari high pressure lines are garbage. Any quality hydraulic line is capable of 3000 psi- the stock lines are rated much lower- check it out, it's written right on them. The catch is if use a better rated product it must be a similar diameter to provide the same or more volume.
I think you are right about the commercial aspect
If the car goes into neutral during shifting or driving, I think some Ferrari expert should also check the internal actuator screws.
I had this same issue--tried a new pump motor and new relay-- no fix. Local shop did a bleed, said bleed screw loose, and no more slow down light. After many months and a track day, I now have e-diff issues. I plan to try another bleed--wish I could do it myself, but I don't own a Leonardo, or SD3.....
Bringing up this thread again.. as I kept getting the red slow down every time I drive the F430 once for few sec after like 30mins driving and goes away.. and sometimes with F1 light after the slow down and goes away.
Today I got the slow down light right after I left home with F1 light while I was at the traffic light... and went off... driving 15mins and got slow down while moving and went away...
Parked for few hours, and then drove to go have dinner which the slow down light again showed while moving and didn't go away for like 20sec which made me pull over on the side.. and went away..
So I moved again and came to traffic light, the slow down came again, and them F1 light came and stayed on... at the same time got the e-diff light.. couldn't move the car, and so embaresing having people horning at you. 2 mins later, lights went off. And I put it into gear and went on the side of the road and took it home on flatbed...
What are my possibilities?
I'm having a similar problem with my 09 manual car. It starts and drives fine for a while and then goes into limp mode showing e diff light as well as slow down and the car triangles light. It just goes through the lights and I have to drive home slowly. If I let it sit for an hour or so it starts and runs fine again until it doesn't. I installed a new battery to no avail. I am frustrated about what to do next. Any thoughts?
Both of the above sound like pressure issues. Really needs a diagnostic check to pin it down.
With only slow down and F1 light,I took it to the dealer and they confirmed that they tested the F1 system, looks fine and no error showing.
But this time with e-diff I guess it would be easier for them to rectify it. And it's easier for me to have them with me in the car and have the light coming on.
But need to know if it would.be something that I can change like the e-diff sensor, or F1 pump.
The E-Diff solenoid is one cause of the slow down light but this could be determined by diagnosis and looking at the E-Diff pressure (it has its own pressure sensor). A logging session would get to the root cause if the symptoms are showing.
The problem is the slow down and F1 light are often linked but can have a multitude of causes.
I recommend leaving it for your dealer at this stage as anything else is guessing.
Hmm, so just to clarify, is the valve part nr. 205742 ? And when you bleed the actuator, are there any gaskets to replace under the bleeding screws, or do they have cone seats?
Still no one able to find out about my issue.. every time they check with SD tool, shows everything is normal.
I had to record a video so my dealer can report to Ferrari Italy..
1st video is 12mins long, testing all mods and driving style... no issues here..
2nd video is when i start having the F1 indicator and slow down blinking at 0:25sec while i was in 3rd gear moving, so it stayed at 3rd gear for few secs before the indicators go off, and all goes back to normal...
and then at 7:48 when i got it again both F1 and slow down, with traction indicator.. i was in 1st gear and then came to a speed bump which i had to slow down and the gear went into neutral.. few secs later everything goes back to normal
It might be the pump as you mention it happens when it is warm, as the oil heats up it becomes thinner and if the pump is worn it might have trouble maintaining the pressure. If it was a pressure switch it would do it all the time.
The pump motor will have a relay somewhere and the same applies in that if it is getting hot it might not be starting the pump motor. I think i have seen mention that the relay is behind the seats but someone on here maybe able to jump in with better info