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For Sale Amelia Island bound

Discussion in 'Other Cars' started by Graz, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. Graz

    Graz Formula 3
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    Thomas
    DEPZ, energy88, johnei and 3 others like this.
  2. surfwolf

    surfwolf Formula Junior
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    Oct 14, 2012
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    Michael Wolfe
    looks great! Do you have an estimate/range? expectation of what it will bring on the block?
     
  3. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    These cars are finally coming into their own. Do you have the original wheels and hub caps? Best of luck at Amelia.
     
  4. Graz

    Graz Formula 3
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    Thank you. Bonhams has an estimate of 70-90K on it. They’re basing it on the last 3 sold at auctions in Pebble and Scottsdale
     
  5. Graz

    Graz Formula 3
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    #5 Graz, Feb 13, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2019
    It’s a very solid car with a pretty much bulletproof motor. I had the entire suspension redone, transmission and brakes rebuilt.
     
  6. Graz

    Graz Formula 3
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    #6 Graz, Feb 13, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
    Thank you. No don’t have original wheels and hubs. I bought it with the Dayton wire wheels you see on it now. I really like the look of them.
     
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  7. 512TRTX

    512TRTX Karting

    Jul 22, 2016
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    Houston
    What are you asking for it? I might be a buyer before it has to ship
     
  8. 512TRTX

    512TRTX Karting

    Jul 22, 2016
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    Houston
    Sorry you did not get close to the estimate. I think those cars are great, just underpowered.
     
  9. Graz

    Graz Formula 3
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    Thanks. I really took a beating on it. It was a beautiful car but lesson learned. :)
     
  10. redfred84

    redfred84 Formula Junior
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    Wondering what the beating was, and the lesson learned? Pray tell please.

    Many Thanks, RF
     
  11. gbutler

    gbutler Formula Junior
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    Sorry you didn't do better. Not even meeting half the estimate should open peoples eyes up to some of the shenanigans that these auction companies are playing! While I may be fairly new to the dealer game (just got my license within the last year), there is a reason people should consider being represented at auction. I realize some of you may be thinking I am "talking up my own book", but nevertheless, the classic car world is a very small one with just a handful of major dealer players. They pretty much control these auctions and buy the majority of cars crossing the block. This in my opinion creates a situation that is ideal for collision, etc. Unless there is a retail buyer in the room (which in this slow market is pretty rare), the deck is stacked against any individual trying to move a car and get top dollar. To be successful, one needs to choose auction houses carefully, picking the one that is most likely to have that retail buyer / end user collector in the room bidding --- and not picking the auction house solely based upon lowest fees, best if any reserve, etc. Some of these lesser auction companies are simply no better or different than one big used car lot. Most of the sales happen post block, and it is mostly dealers preying on owners who have been promised the moon by the auction house and are disappointed and now just want to get rid of the car. Even at the more reputable and largest auctions, one needs to know who you are bidding against --- whether it be the "chandelier in the room", a dealer, or an end user. It is a cozy club of dealers that have the reserved seats in the front rows, and if you can't recognize these people by name and firm, you probably are already at a disadvantage. They know all the tricks of the trade and if there is a deal to be had, they will be all over it.

    Using a good example, the Boxer that crossed the block at RM on Saturday. I know this market well as I just sold my Boxer in December of last year. The car on offer had an estimate of 275 to 325 --- which was "pie in the sky". My car that I sold was a platinum winner at Cavallino with fresh major service, all books, records from new, etc, classiche certified and even factory luggage. I was getting wholesale numbers between 210 and 220 on the car, and two auction houses gave me estimates of 225 to 250 hammer (that is if I put a reserve on the car!). If I didn't put a reserve on the car I am sure I would have been given a much higher estimate! Fortunately, I found a retail buyer on my car and did OK. Nevertheless, back to the RM car -- it was not nearly as nice as mine, but was selling at no reserve. Since the auction company knew they had a guaranteed sale, the estimate was pretty much meaningless, except maybe to make the owner feel good and get him comfortable to sign the consignment agreement. If I remember correctly, opening bid was 150 or so, and we got up to 180 or 190 and things stalled out (that was because that was all the money on the car for a wholesaler, thus there were no dealer bids above that level) - then there was a hand raised in the room at 200, and the car eventually hammered at 230. That was clearly retail money and I didn't recognize the buyer - so clearly an end user who got his car - but he didn't get a deal, he simply got an average car at retail money. No harm no foul, and at least the auction house found retail money for it's client, but the reserve it put on the lot in order to get the consignment agreement was probably a little disingenuous and could have once again lead to an unhappy owner.

    As another example, if there is a reserve on the lot, most of the dealers don't even jump in as they know the reserve is probably past wholesale levels, and they will simply wait until the car no sales and then try and strike a deal post block.
     
  12. Graz

    Graz Formula 3
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    Salient information. Thank you. Hindsight is always 20:20 and in this case it couldn't be more true. As I said lesson was learned and now I know how they operate. Thanks again for your post.
     
  13. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Do you have any experience with BAT?
     
  14. Rory J

    Rory J Formula Junior

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    I'm just curious, did Bonhams ever advise you that the estimates are usually very optimistic? Or were their people telling you the car should bring $70-90k. Most auctions these days, the majority of cars sell below the low estimate and I'm never sure if those consigning cars are aware that the estimate is overblown. For example, Bonhams tells you "we're going to put an estimate of $70-90k on the car to promote bidding, but you should realistically expect $30-50k."
     
  15. Graz

    Graz Formula 3
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    They gave that estimate based on recent auction sales of that particular model Volvo. Based on that one would think it would a more palatable number, but unfortunately it didn’t hit near their estimate.
     
  16. DEPZ

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    Half shocked and half not these auctions are hit or miss never consistent. The car is absolutely beautiful.
     
  17. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    From the pictures you posted, your car was not concour condition. It was a great driver, but I would have been shocked for a P1800 in beautiful driver condition to get anything close to their estimate. Big numbers are for perfect cars. What did they say your car was from a condition estimate?

    I'm sure you must have looked or possibly entertained selling it on your own or consigned it with someone and had a number in your head as to what the car was worth to you.

    I remember looking at Volvos and Datsuns in the late 70s early 80s. The Volvo had a place in my heart because my best friend's dad had a '66 1800S and I always loved the look.

    Not sure where all these big numbers are coming from on what I consider "C" collectables, but they are all over the map, which leads me to believe it not a solid market and just some outliers. Like the 450K etype a few years back.

    Anyway, sorry for your disapointment, but did you have to sell it or was there a way to kill the sale?
     

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