Amelia Island Concours D’Elegance - 2022

Has anyone heard anything about the featured classes for 2022?


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i have heard (3rd hand) that they are going to point judging.

 

There’s variety of point judging procedures.
Did this “3rd hand” reveal which procedure will be used ?

 

ICJAG

 

Well, I guess that settles it then (?).
Although, it can make one wonder, how authenticity/correctness is judged on racing cars, etc., but perhaps they (too ?) have enough available judges who were involved with such cars during their "active" period.

 

ICJAG was started by the founder of IAC/PFA and is a nearly identical system. IAC/PFA is Ferrari specific but ICJAG is multi marque. It is what we were supposed to use at Ferrari 70th but really didn't.

 

I have judged a lot of race cars.Just requires more study prior to the event.

I work on Ferraris every single day and I would not dream of showing up to judge without extensive prior study. It is why we are told in advance what specific cars we will see. Any judge not doing that is a poor excuse for a judge and will not be on my team twice.

 

Dear Timo,

At the advice of David Smith and David Carte, I spent a lot of time and research effort in compiling my "Black Book" of every significant piece of detail I could find so that when it became time to face the fully qualified judges at Pebble Beach I was as prepared as I could be. The book documented every detail that history research could provide and was immediately available to answer the many questions the judges had. For example it had the photos of the grape canes which were under the aluminum seat surround. One photo shows the book being used at the judging. It must have kept them happy as the car was judged as "perfect", 100 points.

Best regards,

Robert

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While I lack the extensive judging experiences you and many others have, I do recall my first invitation(s) for such many moons ago and specifically wondering out loud at judges meeting (in the morning of) why weren’t we notified ahead of time which class we were expected to judge so one could research/study up on authenticities of models in that class.
I also brought this up in subsequent 2-3 events and couple of our regional FCA judging seminars before it eventually became a “standard” procedure.

 

When was that? I have been doing this for a long time and at the national level it was SOP prior to my involvement. Local events often do not have a list of cars prior to the event.

 

15+ years ago and initially the given reasons was that they didn’t know(?) which cars will be attending, but I pointed out that I assumed (Yeah, I know, I know) there was a list of all “accepted/invited” cars and while some may not show up or that providing individual VINs wouldn’t be as important as up front knowledge of the class, i.e.models & types of vehicles one is expected to judgeand more if they turned out to be something that judge has no previous (firsthand) experience with.

Obviously, things have improved(?) since, but OTOH, I’m personally getting to the point I may not want to be involved with it much, if any, longer.
Too much nonsense (incl. politics) with continually declining interest in authenticity.

 

It is impossible to tell you you will judge 275's if you do not know if any will be there. I have been a part of many local events. A field of good judges is not available and often not enough time for you to know whose coming. You take what you got, do what you can do and do and everyone has fun. High School basket ball games are not done at NBA level. The other factor is a standard for a club activity. Lots of people complain. Very few get involved to make it better.

Like anything else in life the results you get are in direct proportion to the effort expended. There is no world wide standard how this is done. There is not even a Ferrari club standard. Many regions and chapters promote their event to be for example done to IAC/PFA standards when I know for a fact they are not. There is no region or chapter with enough qualified people to do it. In Texas one is being planned and it is only because the new national Chief Judge lives here along with a few other very capable judges being involved and we are planning some training seminars between then and now to at least make a start in that direction. In this case it is in preparation for a possible national FCA meet in Austin in a couple of years.


There is zero loss of interest in authenticity. You are comparing pick up games with the serious ones. I have not heard a single word from you about being involved to help make it better....Just complaints.

 

Dear Brian, first let me say that your “sport”(?) analogy might be somewhat wasted on me as I don’t follow any (incl. motor such) nor ever have, but if I understand correctly your comparison of it to local vs. national/international level Concours events, I tend to think it's applicable, including the fact that “Money changes everything” and “Big Money…”

Anyway, I got "involved" long ago, but eventually learned my expectations or views on judging, given guidelines/rules and interpretation of their application appears different from much of the status quo and any chance for meaningful change "to help make it better" would be a huge, or should I say, insurmountable uphill effort for which I don't have time, energy nor that much interest to embark on.

As for my assessment or skepticism of "authenticity" or OEM correctness, having been (hands-on) involved with vintage car restoration hobby over 4 decades and professionally over 3, I've seen plenty of examples in which "it" has become noticeably or even significantly altered during their, often multiple, restorations.
Although most aren't Ferraris, some of these include 100 point, BiC or BoS at Cavallino, PB, etc.
Heck, I even have (my own) photographic "evidence/proof" on several such examples, but I also understand there’s no (good) point to publish any, so...
... maybe it's best I "just complain".

 

There are many who genuinely believe their version of authenticity is the correct one but just as in science if there is no peer review it is just a belief. Big shows are one method of peer review.

One of the vexing problems with Ferrari they may have made twenty examples but all are slightly different. And unlike many other makes Ferrari has few records in many cases and are not interesting in sharing so we all know the real history. As any of the serious restorers will tell you there is very little that is considered the final answer. The history of the authentic original configuration is constantly updated.
A rather famous one off owned by a well known American collector was restored and extensive research was done. It won many awards. Years later a trove of information was uncovered that showed what was thought to be correct about the interior was wrong. Despite every effort to know what was right, it was not. Everyone serious in Ferrari history and in Ferrari car configuration knows it is never settled science. That cars interior was corrected and a few years ago it was best of show at Pebble. But, for all we know there still may be more to learn about it.

Another man and I are just finishing a TR restoration and judging manual. It isn't finished, with luck it never will be.

 

Are there bonus points for pastel coats and wearing shoes with no socks?

 

Funny you should mention. There are shows popping up around the country that are very popular. You bring a car and dress appropriate for its period. My other half has been bugging me to go to the one in Austin. Well we have a White TR.

 

You'll need a loud tropical shirt....got ya covered!!

 

Out of curiosity, is Amelia all judged or is some of it for display only? Additionally how do the ICJAG rules treat replicas?

 

Replica applications are not accepted. Non period rebodies are not excepted. Any car turned into a spider or cabriolet are not accepted.
The entire idea is for preservation and authenticity. Those cars hardly fit that description,.

As far as what the promoter will allow on the field thats up to them.

 

Fixed it for you Brian.