An Ethical Question

As some here know, I monitor the UK Dino market closely and from time to time share that data here. Periodically I come across advertised cars that have descriptions that are disingenuous, and sometimes downright misleading. Very, very rarely they are lies. I am never quite sure what the etiquette here is;

Should one say something if a vehicle is being "pumped", even if it is just an educated guess, or stay silent because it's a caveat emptor world?

I no longer have any particular interest in the market as a putative participant and reputation is obviously very important to those who make a living from the trade and should not lightly be impugned.

What is the consensus, should anyone say anything or not?

 

John,
You are obviously keen to tell us Dinophiles about a car on the market which you know something about.....is it in the UK?

 

i think, as long as you have first hand knowledge of issue or have verified it, ferrai chat is a great place to post. most people looking too buy a car will find out about it here, and furthermore, it documents the issue for future prospects.

lies are one thing, but puffing (the techincal term for selling how great something is) isn't illegal

 

I think it's perfectly fine to disclose any legitimate misgivings that you may have about the description of a particular car that is for sale. You will be providing a service to your fellow Dino lovers, and possibly arming a prospective purchaser with the information necessary to avoid a bad buy or to negotiate a fair price. You are to be commended for your forthrightness. Fred

 

as long as its objective in nature, I think you should call people out. I know I would appreciate somebody doing this if I were buying. Afterall, that's why PPIs are so important. To check the seller's claims on a technical aspect.

 

Always start your sentence with "I believe".

Then you can say anything you want; its just your belief, not a statement of fact.

 

I believe that if a user here has specific knowledge of a car for sale that has problems that exceed the scope of normal wear and tear he should seriously consider revealing that information here.

As long as the information is first hand, observational, or from a mechanic you hired to look at a car, then its not hearsay, or rumor, it's founded in fact.

On the other hand, if I get a phone call from a guy I know who knows a guy who had a friend look at a Dino and that guy told him that the other guy said the car was a dog, then I think I'd leave that alone.

See what I'm saying? There's an ethical issue here. If you queer a deal for a seller based on second or third hand information, then I think you're doing a disservice to the seller. If you know first hand that a car got wrapped around a tree and rebuilt, then I think that's the kind of information we all would like to add to our Dino database.

I had quite the conversation some months ago with a long time respected user here about this very subject. At the time, he decided not to reveal what he knew, out of respect for the seller. I disagreed with him, but accepted his decision as well thought out and the only one he could live with.

But I still hold the position that if you KNOW a car has a problem, and it's for sale, then that problem should see the light of day here.

DM

 

Dave: It today's litigious world, over populated with under employed flesh eating lawyers, enabled by occasionally huge egos (see the Sheehan C4 sale soap opera), anything more than a very singular and firm "you really need to get a PPI" is above and beyond. All the more so if your personal liability insurance umbrella does not protect against slander or libel.......M

 

The definitive defense is telling the truth. If you had a PPI done on a car, and it showed issues with that car, and you passed on the vehicle, that would be something that could be posted here. Doesn't mean you can't get sued, jsut means the other guy can't win.

"I passed on 04798 because the PPI I had done revealed low compression on cyl 3&4"

"04798 has been recently repainted. I don't know why, and the paint job appears to be very high quality, but it has been repainted."

"I looked at 04798 recently. The owner had a very hard time getting it to start."

On the other hand, "I looked at 04798 recently. The owner was a jackass and wouldn't let me drive the car. As a result, I'm sure the car has several hidden problems that would have been revealed during the drive." wouldn't fly, although lawsuit worthy, I dunno.

And when you're all said and done, you have to prove damages. Was the car listed for too much money to begin with? did the seller do what was necessary to maximize the value. Did the post actually do harm? Prove that you lost a sale because of a post here. Prove that your sale price was diminished by that post.

What percentage of buyers in the market even read these threads? 10%, 20% maybe. Tough case to prove, would no doubt, in the case of a Dino, cost more to pursue than the potential value of the damages.

DM

Disclaimer, 04798 is my old car, AND HAS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. IT'S PERFECT. EVEN MORE THAN WHEN I OWNED IT.

 

Maybe this is a better example.

Car gets listed as "genuine original Flairs and Chairs" car.

you have the original receipt for that car. It had neither when it left the factory, has both now. Posting that information would be a true service to the buyer, and perhaps, as any of these cars have changed hands a half dozen times or more, its information the seller didn't have either.

 

Dave: All very true, and you would be on the side of the angels, however, I know someone who stated a fact on a non automobile matter and was sued for it, and successfully defended the suit which was eventually withdrawn prior to trial, his defense fees topped $250,000, as he had no insurance, the bill was his. The only true winner was the lawyers on both sides. I note that the Sheehan matter is over a car of less value than a mid range 246 GTS M