And ... another 208 turbo | Page 8 | FerrariChat

And ... another 208 turbo

Discussion in '308/328' started by 2281GT, Apr 13, 2015.

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  1. 2281GT

    2281GT Formula 3
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    #176 2281GT, Aug 16, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The shaft bearing of the turbocharger is dead ! :(
    The oil runs through the shaft back into the engine where it is burned. That is not correct. The bearing gives a yelp anytime the boost collapses (gearchanging f.e.).

    I am happy to own the new charger. Now is the time to build in.
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  2. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Markus, how did you managed to find out that problem? Just through the oil consumption or there were some other evidences?

    Thanks

    Ciao
     
  3. 2281GT

    2281GT Formula 3
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    Alberto, every "Turbo-Pro" teils you :"If the Charger is yelling, it's gone " and my charger was yelling horrible loud at boost-collaps.
    That was the reason, why I decided to unmount the Turbo-Charger, only 10 screws, one hour of work, and to take a look at the bearing and the shaft.
    What I see was:
    The shaft has a unbelieveble big play, so that the turbine blades are scratching at the housing.
    The oilconsumption of the engine was "tolerable", about 1/2 Liter per 500 km, 1 Liter per 1000 km.
     
  4. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Ah, ok: Then there was some strange noise from the turbocharger. 1 liter each 1000 km means at least one problem somewhere, as it's four times the standard one.
    Less play in the new turbocharger will mean much more power too.

    Let's know how it will work with the new KKK egt

    Thanks

    Ciao
     
  5. 2281GT

    2281GT Formula 3
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    The Specialists of KKK (the maunfacturer of the Charger here in Germany) told me, that up to 2,5 Liters per 1000 km can "flow through" the turbocharger with a defect shaft. I hope, the shaft of the charger is the only problem that engine has.

    Those specialists also told me, that my old charger delivered only about half the pressure a new charger will produce (at the same shaftrevolutions per minute) That means, that my old charger may probably has produced (nearly) the 0.6 bar he should, but if so (maybe not) much much later at the revs. Normaly the K26 needs to run about 130.000 rpm to produce 0.6 bar and runs up to about 190.000 rpm, they told me. My charger (with that big play of the shaft and that kind of scratching of the blades) only could run a maximum of 120.000 to 130.000 they said and that at this rpm it produced about 30% less pressure than usual.
    So, I believe (not know) that my old charger produced a maximum of 0,4 to 0,5 bar at 5000 (engine) rpm and (maybe) 0,5 to 0,6 bar at 6500 (engine) rpm.

    Conclusion: I hope, there will be (much) more power with the new turbocharger. :)
     
  6. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Sure it will have much more power at lower RPM, but don't expect miracles as also when new the car pushed just from 4500 RPM (I have a 1982 test drive on a magazine reporting that 4500-7000 RPM was the useful engine range). If you want to lower of almost 1000 RPM the engine pushing point, you need the Tubi muffler.
    If you want to be sure to reduce the oil consumption, you need new valve guides.

    Thank you very much for sharing this very useful info's

    Ciao
     
  7. 2281GT

    2281GT Formula 3
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    For that job I will come to italy to Toni Auto but I hope, the engine will (at least) run another one or two years, before I have to visit Toni.

    btw ... The KKK Specialists also told me, that the K26 was constructed for a Life expectancy of max. 50.000 km, so it should be changed/rebuilt/overhault every 50.000 km. My old charger has now 63.000 km "at the odo".
    How old are your chargers, Alberto ? ;)
     
  8. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    #183 Albert-LP, Aug 17, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
    My turbo mileages: one has 12000 km, one has 64000 km (and works very well, it's on my wife silver GTB), on my red GTB it was rebuilt less than 1000 km ago. On this car they tried to solve the big oil consumption problem by rebuilding the turbocharger, but without any success, as when we opened the engine we saw why it burned so much oil: valve guides had more play than your turbocharger shaft...

    I don't know if on the 64000 km one it was already rebuilt, as it pushes very but very well, but I have no evidence of that and my opinion is that is still untouched.

    I have the mobile phone number of the KKK specialist that developed with Ferrari factory the 1982 Ferrari 208 Turbo: he is an Italian engineer and is an F-Chat member too.

    The mileage depends very much on how you drive the car: German autobahn at full speed will lower very much the MTBF, gentle driving with low oil temperatures and low RPM will double the turbocharger expected life.
    Toni told me there is not a deadline, it depends very much from how you drove the car, as there are cars with 80000 km with an OEM untouched turbo.

    IHI watercooled turbochargers (on the 208 intercooler model) usually go over 100000 km before needing an hoverhaul.

    A turbocharger overhaul fullservice here is usually 800-1000 euro: I have no idea how much a new KKK K26 Turbocharger can cost

    ciao


    Edit:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-944-Turbo-S-turbocharger-K26-8-new-original-951-123-131-03-5326-988-7042-/322221046095
    Is this the same? you could replace the Borgwarner plate with the old KKK plate

    Eurospares says it has a new one at 780 euro+ VAT: is that possible?
    http://www.eurospares.co.uk/parts/ferrari/208-turbo-1982/all/turbo-charging-system-39525/117714

    Edit2:

    no, the Porsche 944 Turbo doesn't fit: correct F106D turbocharger part number is 53269886414.

    There is plenty of repair kits, rebuilt ones, but very hard to find a NOS like your one
     
  9. 2281GT

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    A new KKK K26 costs only 565,- Euro (VAT included !!!) or 472,- Euro plus VAT at Maranello classic parts. But you have to pay for the surcharge part (the old charger) 1100,- Euro (incl. VAT).
    In total I've paid 1.790,- Euro (VAT and shipping included) and will get back 1.110,- Euro, so the charger has a total cost of 680,- Euro (including all).
     
  10. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    thank you very much: you don't have to fear a turbocharger failure, at those prices!

    ciao
     
  11. Benneke

    Benneke Karting

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    Markus, can you post pictures of the busted turbo?
     
  12. 2281GT

    2281GT Formula 3
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    Sorry, Benny, too late. The garage has sent it back to Maranello parts to get the crediting. I've forgotten, to take pictures. But There was nothing unusual to see I remember.
     
  13. 2281GT

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    #188 2281GT, Aug 24, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Changing the turbocharger (e.g. mounting the new one) seems to be a little more difficult ...

    The screws and gaskets of the Exhaust-tubes have been rotten (burnt up, glown by). :(

    New nuts and bolts besides a few gaskets ...
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  14. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    I just spent some thime this morning with the KKK engineer that followed the development of 126 C F1, 208 turbo and 288 GTO, 1979-1983: a very interesting and pleasant morning and lunch!

    ciao
     
  15. 2281GT

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    #190 2281GT, Aug 24, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2016
    Just received the very intresting publication "Ferrari Story No8 - TURBO" about the 208 turbo , the GTB/GTS turbo and the 288 GTO.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Best wishes
    Markus
     
  16. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    very interesting: thank for sharing!

    ciao
     
  17. furmano

    furmano Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Hey Alberto, I can't remember if it has been discussed but BBR models is making a 1/18 version of the 308 Turbo. It looks really nice. Maybe add another one to your collection. :)

    -F
     
  18. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Yes, it looks very nice: Me and Markus already booked one, thanks.

    Ciao
     
  19. 2281GT

    2281GT Formula 3
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    #194 2281GT, Sep 7, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  20. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Well done: finally that wreckage will start to look like a Ferrari... ;)

    Don't forget to check the inlet bypass seals and correct working

    ciao
     
  21. 2281GT

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    #196 2281GT, Nov 14, 2016
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  22. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    I have to say that the silver 1:18 model is fantatic and VERY tempting... ;)

    Congrats for the N.1 of the series!

    ciao
     
  23. Harry-SZ

    Harry-SZ F1 Rookie

    Are these really numbered individually?
    Nice modelcar! I still 'need' a good 308 GTB QV.


    But I also have a question about 208 Turbo's.
    A friend of mine is looking for one and I wondered if the belt change is more difficult on a 208 Turbo than on a normal 308 GTB?

    There is one for sale with an invoice of a recent belt change (only belts, not rollers sadly) and it shows 32 hours of work for only belts! That seems a bit much.
     
  24. 2281GT

    2281GT Formula 3
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    Yes, the 48 items are numbered individually.

    No, it's exactly the same.

    All in (including tensioners and bearings) there have to be 10 hours but not more.
     
  25. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    There is a lot of ignorance about those cars: They have an underbored 308 2Vi engine and a turbocharger added. My mechanic charged me 550 euro +VAT for the complete belt change with all the rollers. Just a MAD could change just the belt.

    Better buy one well serviced and find another shop: a full belt change requires less than 4 hours of labor

    Ciao
     

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