Andretti Global F1 team

Alpha Tauri is an historical team with a lineage going back to 1985 when it was started under the name Minardi. It was the springboard of many drivers' careers, and has gained its spurs in F1.
HAAS is the last team coming in F1. Gene Haas and Guenther Steiner built that team from scratch, using a different model. Haas outsources as much as allowed and benefits from collaboration with Ferrari and Dalarra. A clever low-cost team that's Haas.
Also, wrong premise to attack Haas for adverising their products: EVERY team in F1 is a billboard for sponsors !
Why wouldn't Haas and AT be deserving?
Do you think that eliminating teams at the bottom would pave the way for Andretti to immediatly join the front ?
It's the arrogance and sense of entitlement from the Andretti side that is unbearable .

 

It's not that Haas advertise their products, it's precisely because they came in with zero intention of actually being a serious competitive team and viewed the sport as a cost saving exercise in order to serve and ONLY serve advertising Haas CNC products that I find them so insufferable.

I'm sorry William, you can't actually tell me you're glad there's a team who aren't trying to win. The cost cap came in to make things more viable financially, between the Russian partnership and their dismal performance over the last few years the team is simply indefensible.

With regards AT, yes Minardi is a historic and important part of the sport. That was a long time ago. They are now a graveyard for failed RB drivers, for the most part offering zero value to the sport. It's well understood, if you want to win a championship you have to leave AT...a la Gasly. They are stagnant, uninteresting and uncompetitive. That is not to be celebrated.

This sport is a meritocracy, those who fail to succeed should be ousted not congratulated.

Sauber is set to become a works team,
Williams are making strides in investment,
Aston are doing the same,
McLaren are coming into their own,
Alpine are solid midfielders on their day,
Ferrari are the 2nd or 3rd fastest team,
Merc are clearly moving in the right direction
Red Bull are doing about as well as is humanly possible.

I want to watch racing, AT and Haas do not and will never offer that.

 

There is, at the moment, no mechanism in the FIA rules to eliminate the teams that perform less in F1.
You may wish some were introduced, but I think the present system of "natural selection" satisfying enough for my taste.
Teams perform or not, succeed or not, thrive or go bankrupt to get swallowed by new investors, or survive on their own.
Their owners desinvest from F1 to make room for newcomers sometimes. F1 is a mirror of business life . Not everyone is a winner.
Most teams have changed owners throught life, even Ferrari that has different owners who took over the company.
Do you think all the work teams will survive ? Look at BMW, Honda, Toyoya, etc ...
Also, the notion that only those who want to win in sport should compete is also an illusion.
Look at the Olympics; do you think that all the athletes think they can win? Hell no; they only want to measure against the bests .
De Coubertin said:"The important is to participate". It's the same in F1, if we are honest.
I am from a generation where we weren't so obsessed by winners, but appreciated the efforts of all the participants.
Up to the 80s, there were private teams* in F1 and I was more interested in them than by factory teams and their huge resources, so now I still have some empathy for small constructors.

"This sport is a meritocracy, those who fail to succeed should be ousted not congratulated".
You will not be surprised if I totally reject that notion. I think they all work to their best, and obtain different results.

*On top of my head : RCC Walker, Scuderia Centro-Sud,; Jo Bonnier- Anglo Swiss, Reg Parnell Racing, Theodore Racing, Ensign, Walter Wolf Racing, British Racing Partnership, SIMTEC, Pacific, etc ...

 

My belief is that the top teams are already so well funded by their ownership and/or OEM and sponsors that the incremental loss of an 11th team is not a problem. Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull, McLaren. Aston Martin would be in that group. I see the real impact for the marginal teams at the bottom.

 

Possible, but that's for the top teams to decide !!
I don't think they have to make an effort to accept another team, and there is nothing to force them.
That's not how business works !!!

Like I said before, Michael Andretti should first come clear about the reasons why negotiations with Sauber fail.

 

I see no relevance to why Andretti should reveal everything about the failed bid for Sauber. It could be disparity in valuations, Sauber could have seen that there was another interested party so their negotiation stance changed, maybe Sauber wanted some guarantees on staff that the buyer did not want to assume, it could come down to legal clauses that were unacceptable to one side or the other.

I will always come back to the current Concorde Agreement allowed for 2 additional teams and that the money for distribution was $200 mil. All 10 teams agreed to that. That does not reopen until the next Concorde is done. But, that is not stopping the 10 teams, and FOM, from wanting to renegotiate the agreed upon terms.

 

Michael Andretti turned down the occasion of getting a foothold in F1 when he refused the gradual transfer of capital asked by Longbow Finance (Rausing family, Sauber's owners) that would have led after a while to acquiring a majority stake in an established F1 team, without having to pay $200M dilution fee (as it was then) . He would have had immediate managerial role. That would have saved him a major headache. The Rausing family wanted to keep 15% of Sauber, as sleeping partner. Andretti thought it wasn't a good deal.
I presume the Rausing wanted to operate that way (desinvesting in stages) for tax purpose.

AUDI were not so choosy, and jumped at the opportunity. They signed with Longbow, bought a minority stake, and took over the management of the team immediatly, to build up the outfit in view of their official entry in 2026.
Still now, the team still belongs to Longbow, but by 2026, Audi should reach majority stake.
So, there is no many ways to look at it, it was a blunder on Michael's part. Maybe he didn't undersand the reason the Rausing advanced.
This is well known in F1 circles, and one of the reasons Michael Andretti don't get sympathy among other teams owners, I suspect.

As a parallel, Toto Wolff wanted to have a team in F1. He knew he couldn't create one, and he didn't try, but he invested his money in Williams, to obtain a small share, and a place on the board. Having never been in F1 before, he observed the running of the team, and learnt the trade, still looking around for a good opportunity. When Mercedes bought out Brawn, Toto offered his services as manager, proposing to bring some capital too (Toto was in finance). Ross Brawn was unceremoniously pushed out, Toto got the CEO job with Niki Lauda as chaperon. Toto sold his shares in Williams, reinvested in Mercedes-AMG F1, and ran the team that won 7 WCCs and 7 WDCs ! Now Toto is 1/3 owner and boss of one of the most successful F1 teams.
"Mighty oaks from little acorn grow ..."

 

Not exactly. He understands their position with respect to wanting to protect their financial interests. That doesn’t equate with approving of their attempts to sabotage his relationship with his main partner. That’s potentially actionable, at least under U.S. law. I have a feeling that there’s going to be a lot of time spent in court if the application is denied. If that happens the teams may begin to believe that their losses would have been smaller if they’d simply accepted Andretti’s application at got in with it. That would be sweet, actually…..

 

If Liberty and the team manage to drag the negotiations until the end of the present Concorde Agreement in 2025.
The next one will probably contain a clause that 10 participants is the limit, and also raise the value of the dilution fee well above $200M.
It's just a matter of making the next contract more ... watertight, shall we say. If that happens, the case will be closed.
It will be interesting to follow, mostly during the inter-season, when there are no races to watch !!

 

Possibly. But Andretti would plead that the application was accepted for consideration under the provisions of the then-existing Agreement, therefore provisions of a new Agreement would apply to Andretti only if his application received final acceptance/approval and he would then be subject to any Agreement that may exist as of that date.

It’s frankly sad that this discussion has so much to do with legal nuance, minutiae, and…it must be said…greed, than with the former sport of racing. Honestly, these F1 moguls are pretty much a disgrace across the board. And you guys thought Balestre, Bernie and Max were vulgarians.

 

Bring back Flavio Briatore, the grid girls, industrial espionage, bribery, and real hard racing with life and death consequences.

 

Ben- Sulayem continues to interject and attempt influence over FOM and teams. This appears very personal for him. Over the last year he has been on camera/in press at races and events with Andretti lol. His personal pet want to be F1 team owner. Who ensured no bias in the assessment of the offers lol.

Sorry but that’s obvious how much attention Andretti gets from the FIA leader. Yeah the teams should trust him and his pet team candidate???

 

Yes, MBS is personally sponsoring the Andretti bid, when his role as President of the FIA should be one of strict impartiality.
On top of that, he is going well beyond his powers, and should let the FOM (Liberty) to deal solely in business matters.
I hope Ben Sulayem will not be re-elected next time; he has been very disappointing and doesn't deserve it.

 

Who is greedy in this case? The teams trying to preserve their income, or Andretti who wants to pick their wallets ?

Andretti is the outsider, the interloper who want to bully his way in a close circle, and cry foul when he isn't welcome.

I don't see any reason why he should be made comfortable in his attempt. F1 isn't a charity; it's a cut-throat business.

One thing, I don't see neither Liberty, nor Haas, both American, pleading in his favour. Strange no ?

 

If indeed some parties tried to interfere with his relationship with his principle partner then he should try to “pick their wallets,” but that might happen in court. By the way, can you name a professional sports league that, despite the protestations of the existing owners, did not ultimately benefit from expansion?

You may be right. They aren’t greedy. They’re just dumb and fearful of competition.

 

I wonder if Sulayem is working an angle where the FIA is to reassert itself as at least an equal to FOM in power, if not exceeding FOM. Under this speculation, it goes back to Max and Bernie getting Balestre out so they could collude in carving up the pie to their own enrichment to the detriment of the FIA's power.

 

Do not forget the Jean Todt presidency during which the FIA was very discreet, and let FOM and the teams to sort out among themselves the running of F1. That included, apart from the financial side, the change of formula, the new technical rules, the adoption of the hybrid system, the increase of the number of events, the Concord Agreement, etc ...
Jean Todt just rubber-stamped most of the decisions, and was widely respected for his moderation: he hardly ever took side.
In the opposite, MBS is taking a different path that goes well beyond his role, making statements that put his impartiality in doubt.
I suspect he craves for authority, and wants to assert himself.
The "Andretti affair" could well turn into a tug of war between the FIA and FOM.

 

ANOTHER CHANCE FOR ANDRETTI TO BUY SAUBER TO ENTER F1 ?

MAKING SENSE OF THE AUDI F1 COLD FEET RUMOUR
MICHELE LUPINI 26 OCTOBER, 2023 2 MIN READ

Making sense of the Audi F1 cold feet rumour (gptoday.com)

Amid a rumour that Audi are about to abandon their Formula 1 project, word is if that does indeed happen Porsche may step into the fold again.

Following Audi’s trend of culling everything motorsport, from the DTM and GT3, to its Formula E program, its stillborn LMDh prototype sports car racing project and even giving its wild Dakar project the bullet after January’s 2024 race, rumour has had it that the Four Rings’ F1 project is on the skids.
Audi has of course already started to buy into the Sauber F1 team, to establish its own team to run the new F1 power units it is building at a German facility. But all of that, and all those racing projects, were established on former Audi CEO Markus Duesmann’s watch. Now VW’s supersonic revolving office door as ushered in a new boss, Gernot Döllner.
And it seems Herr. Döllner may just have other ideas on racing. Rumours have flown that Audi will renege on its F1 plans after all. Even if Ingolstadt’s propaganda machine was quick to try to pour cold water on it all. “The media coverage is a rumour and absolutely untrue,” a PR suit insisted this week. “Audi’s Formula 1 plan remains unchanged.”

Is Audi about to ditch F1?
“Audi’s Formula 1 entry in 2026 is based on a decision of the Board of Audi AG in alignment with the Supervisory Board of Audi AG. As well as the Supervisory Board of Volkswagen Group,” the statement went on, going on to confirm that Audi continues at pace with preparations and development of the new engine.
Based on previous such shallow denials that were closely followed by Toyota, Honda, Renault, and many other carmakers exiting F1 over the years, there however remains every probability that the spokesman’s bosses will just go over his head and cut the program. ‘Tis what bosses do.
But wait! What about Porsche? Porsche’s parallel plans on a grandiose return of course fell apart after being jilted by Red Bull Racing at the F1 altar. Horner, Marko & Co. ran off to get busy with Ford. Porsche was later snubbed by Williams, McLaren, and Aston Martin. So Zufferhausen put its own F1 plans on ice.

Will Porsche take over Audi’s F1 plans
Now with Audi seemingly on the cusp of writing its F1 Dear Johnny letter, it appears that Porsche could very well pick up Audi’s F1 Project in toto. Take over the engine project, standing in for its sister and eventually wed Sauber to run the show.
Stranger things have happened in F1. This one not only seems to make a whole lot of sense, but it could be a godsend for all concerned.

 

lol, first you state (for not the first time apparently) that Andretti should come clean on a failed deal. Then you go into detail about why the deal failed. If you already know/knew then why keep asking?

 

Yes, I still question Andretti's motivation in refusing the Sauber deal.
Why did he turn down the only opportunity presented to him is a puzzle for me.
Michael Andretti said in an interview: " They wanted me to invest, but I still wouldn't own the company".
That sounded very naive, and I cannot believe his advisers didn't explain him how the corporate system works.

 

Oh my cannot shut it. You are the complete hypocrite lol. You have stated you would do the same as the teams are now if you were on the grid lol. The old 'Hillbilly' association. Sorry thats just old news. Pathetic.

Andretti: F1 teams think "we are a bunch of hillbillies"
Michael Andretti thinks Formula 1 teams view his squad as "a bunch of hillbillies", after admitting surprise at the level of resistance he is facing at the moment.

 

I read somewhere that Andretti could race in F1 from 2025, whilst not being accepted by Liberty and the 10 teams.

The FIA (MBS) would issue him a license to race in GPs, without Andretti Global being a party to the Concorde Agreement.

On other words, Andretti would race totally at his own expense, and receive nothing from Liberty.

But that would need the cooperation of organising circuits, to arrange for extra pit and paddock space, etc ...

I don't know if there is any truth in that.

 

Legally permissible, so not practical given what you posted about garage/paddock space. Andretti may have some money and Cadillac but certainly they will not race for free lol. He has no engine supply. 2025 is a dream that passes daily unless something changes soon.

 

I believe that MBS is trying his own version of hardball with FOM/Liberty Media to get the answer he wants. Maybe his play isn't to Domenicalli but directly to Liberty. Apparently he has the authority to get Andretti on the grid even without FOM approval. Not sure if skipping the first year's prize money distribution for the would be a problem. If they skipped that would he still have to pay the $200 mil? If he took the one year hit would he then automatically have to be included in the next Concorde agreement as a current competitor? Would this be part of MBS' posturing/negotiation stance?

 

Years ago, new teams entering F1 were not accepted in FOCA (Formula One Constructors Association) during their first year.
They had to spend one season on probation before they could receive any money from FOM during that time.
That's how a few team failed.