Another broken timing belt thread

"But even worse, they fabricate time and the amount of work they actually get done, "

"its just milking the customer."

" And if you were to peek in on the mechanic servicing your car, you would probably see him working on something other than your car.[/QUOTE]"


Damn, now thats a short memory. The word theif was never used, but I think you got your point across clearly


"But if they told many customers they could do the service for 10 to 15 hours labor, many may think they arent getting proper service?"

This is why I asked YOU to list what you do in 10 hrs! The list that Brian posted IS a Major Service and skipped a few items we add to it. That list is a regional thing as stated earlier. Mechanics that give a damn look for problems that have a high reoccurance rate in their region and adress them as regular pratice in a Major.
Someone that is on their SECOND Ferrari making statements such as you did above is utter Horse Crap (damn its hard to take the high road on this one, Niki didnt phrase it quite the same as I just did).
There are a few of us left that have been doing Ferrari's since the 308's were new that still give a damn. We talk on the phone, sometimes numerous times a week, just to work out problems on our customers cars. I can think of 3 times in the last few weeks with tech's in Minnesota alone, and I can assure you that this time is never thought of being posted to anyones RO! Brian, whom I regard as one of the top 3 or 4 Ferrari techs in NA, and I talk weekly and work out procedures and problems we come across on these cars. I can think of numerous instances right off that saved our customers many hours of diagnostic time. We share tools, thoughts and ideas, manuals and data, everything just to keep our costs as low as possible.
Its been 30 years now since Dan Jones and Tom Gavic first gave me a break and taught me Ferrari's, with Sicard and Bungfeld taking the time to teach me the fine points. Since that time I have serviced a few more than 2 308's and you would think I could get faster at it by now. It still take me the better part of a day to rebuild, phase the points, advance match and setup a pair of distributors (yes, with as worn as some are now I have spent far more than a day doing this) and you can get the entire "engine service" done in 10 hours? The real problem here is that new Ferrari owners will read this kind of Horse Crap and some will believe it.
The whole goal to a Major Service is to return to the customer a car that needs only oil changes and air filters for the next 5 years, and yes that includes a wax and polish on each that is never charged for.

Dave

 

What are the 6 hoses for? I thought the cooling system only uses like 3 or 4...

 

If I recall correctly, 4 large feed/ return radiator hoses, 1 green? hose under the intake manifold, 1 or 2 from the coolant tank, 1 or 2 to feed/ return heat. Others?

 

i'm sorry, they aren't mack hoses, i just checked with the owner of the car that i installed them on , he shipped them to me in a mack box, he said he got'em of the internet
i'll try to get the webpage for it

we were having overheating problems on a RANGE ROVER and we changed the upper hose to see if air was going thru the system

 

Clear hoses are clever. Your customer is sharp. Please find out the what/where/how much on those hoses!

 

Rolo, did your customer send you nylobraid (210 psi burst strength)??

http://www.newageindustries.com/nylobrd.asp
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i asked him for the hoses BECAUSE he installed a LPG convertion and the car started to overheat, and since the LPG has to plug in the cooling system to keep it from freezing, and they plugged it were they should't so hot water was circulating back to the engine instead of the radiator, the guy has a small tractor company and he told me that he is gonna look thru his stuff to get the address from where he got it

it was braided silicone and was heat resistant

 

this one won't work 'cause max operating temperature is 175 degress so it's to low

 

try here, they sell bulk but some one can import them and resell them, nad make some money

http://www.tradekey.com/selloffer_view/id/95950.htm

or here

http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/469121/982

 

http://www.ronfell.com/components/pipes/index.html

or here

 

Agreed. However, don't look for it happening anytime soon.

 

Right. Was it more like this product that he sent you? http://www.newageindustries.com/datasheet.asp?PN=3102631&FAM=Tubing
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Oh Aaron, tisk, tisk, tisk, and you just finished pulling your engine.

There are actually 12 hose, 11 that need to be changed on a 348, and 1 that I feel is optional

4 hoses for the radiators, two on each radiator
2 hoses for the feed and return on the water pump
(I think these are the 6 he was talking about)

2 hoses for the feed and return of the heater
2 hoses on the expantion tank, one feeding the radiator pipes and the other feeding the crossover under the plenum
1 hose under the plenum, that goes from the back of the water pump to the cross over

1 overflow hose on the expantion tank, just under the radiator cap. This is the one I feel is optional

 

Hey Ernie, what do you think about using clear coolant hoses?

 

probably, we used a 1/2 diameter for the lpg evaporator

 

If they can hold the pressure, work at the proper temperatures, and don't have a problem with anitfreeze, why not. The only thing is that alot of the hoses on the 348 need to be preshaped. You don't want a hose/s to get kinked, especially when it is cooling an engine.

 

or you can use it between bends just for diagnosting purposes

 

OK, good deal.

I actually know a tip to keep a flexible hose from kinking; use an external "spring" wrapped around it.

I have no idea if that would be an issue for the above clear hose, but the coolant industry has a fix in use if so, anyway.

 

Yep, those are the 6 I intend to do. One that connects to the stat housing and one of the RH rad hoses is starting to bulge a little. The one under the plenum looks in perfect condition from what I can see (fortunate as it looks tough to get at..) as well as being a different material to the others for some reason.

 

has to be an external spring because internal ones desintegrate thru time and and the pieces end up destroying the water pump and cloggint the thermostat

 

I would usually refrain from posting to these types of threads, since we hear similar thoughts on overpaid/underworked in my field. So far my PR is 40hrs straight on my feet.

I just wished I lived closer to Mr. Crall, Mr. Helms, or Phil (ferrarifixer). They're spending precious non-billable professional time helping folks they've never met over the internet solve F-car problems...for free. Not because they have to, because they want to. How many people in any line of work do you find who do that nowadays? If many of us (myself included) left FC, we wouldn't be missed...but these guys certainly would.

If you feel a need to criticize a seasoned expert, do the job yourself. I'm (seriously) all for starting a monthly pizza (or beer) fund for these guys.

Best,

Carl

 

What he said.

 

Agreed.

 

I'm all for that.
As a DIY guy myself, I don't think we would be able to repair our cars ourselves without these guys. There are no haynes/clymer manuals and the factory manuals are expensive and in a lot of cases useless.
Mr. Crall, Mr. Helms, Phil (ferrarifixer), Steve (91tr), Verell, you guys and maybe some I've missed(sorry) are appreciated more than you can imagine.
THANK YOU......larry

 

Just curious,as i havent had a look or feel of the radiator hoses in my 348 yet? But do they have an internal spring inside the radiator hoses to prevent them "sucking closed" at high rpm?? As these engines just love high rpm. If you know what i mean? Sucking closed and slowing down/stopping coolant flow through the engine/radiators,subsequently overheating the engine? Does the 348 have an issue with the hoses doin that?? Or is just V8 Fords/Chevs ect.... that im used to seeing do so?