Another Exhaust thread?! Honestly.. this is slightly different!

I have no personal experience with this product, but I have researched this topic and the most intriguing I've found is Kreissieg. Kreissieg Valvetronic lets you reroute exhaust via a dash switch and this is the closest to F1 sound I've ever heard coming from a 360...

http://www.kreissieg-usa.com/video.php?video=360_020929.mpg&desc=F-1 Mode - Full throttle action 1 At Tokyo Speedway (Super Sound!)

 

i love that exhaust

 

Wow that is awesome! Too much for me in terms of sound and money. I think it is around $7K. That would wake my neighbors up, but on the track...wow!

 

Yeah, but remember you just flip a switch on the dash and you are back to quietsville... well at least that's the idea

 

My CS exhaust is always open since I un-did the vacuum hoses. When I start it up, it's REALLY LOUD, but when the idle drops after a minute, it quiets down a lot.

Quick story: About 2 weeks ago I went out to start my car, night before L.V. trip, I wanted to make sure all was good. I started it up and waited for the idle to drop and then turned it off. My wife was across the street at our neighbors. When she came home later that night she asked if I had started the car. I told her I had. She said another neighbor said there was a horrible loud noise coming from our garage. Oh well.

 

Maybe there was but did you actually start the car?

 

Yeah, but what's horrible to one is music to another.

 

Where there are exhaust questions....you'll find me there! Where innocent Ferrari owners need insight into the ways of the exhaust, so too shall I rise to the occassion! Let us begin.........

Rule #1; nerver apologize for writing a long post...the road to Exhaust OCD is neither short nor brief

I agree. A buddy of mine has a Kreisseng on his 430 and while it sounds good....it by NO means sounds anything like what you hear on that video. Maybe it was the quality of the microphone, the acoustics of the track or just amazing audio filters/editing....but (sorry to say/report) what you hear is not what you'll get.

ALSO; when I had my Capristo stage-3 (a system reknown for the F1-sound)...what you hear in the car is nothing like what others behind the car or as a spectator hears!

Nobody has addressed this yet...but much of that great raspy/shrill sound DOESN'T get into the drivers ears: the car/driver and the sound waves are relatively moving at a constant linear speed or progression. You still hear the escalation of the rpm's and the intensity to some degree.....but the bystander and especially the car being overtaken is the one truly receiving the astonishing character and drama of the tone!!!!!

Case in point: when Dusty drove my car past me (several times) I couldn't believe all the raspy tone, shrill and exotic-crazy-wicked note that I totally wasn't getting inside the car. It only makes sense, the exhaust faces back away from the car and you're facing away from it. Driving the car, I got a fraction of the whole audible dimension. I still managed to get a lot of drone/resonance and it was so loud I couldn't even hear my tires screeching through hard turns. My wife refused to take long drives in the car and the guy who bought the system from me just got a ticket for "too loud exhaust".

I've already covered the recent build-quality issues Capristo is suffering from as well...so you gotta be careful; make sure the people you buy it from will warranty it from defects!

There is one thing worth mentioning. My car is a Euro 360 and I've been told it has no pre-cats. Indeed, my car IS louder then others to start with. I'll bring this up later with the CS and Larini system.

Back to Capristo. I did an interesting test: I plugged the inner pipes and drove the car keeping it under 4,000 rpm. At first I tried multiple layers of tin-foil, if they were applied while the car was running it would be fine....but I applied them with the engine off and upon start-up the abrupt change in pressure blew-out the foil and just about everybody watching fell to the ground hystercially laughing: I've not lived that down yet. BUT the experiment proved interesting. I used some sheet metal and fabricated my own caps and then used band-clamps to secure them. The overall sound was reduced about 40% and the drone/resonance was reduced about 85%. It was mellow, dull and didn't have a hint of back-burble.....but it did work. The caps were just temporary....

If you have your stock exhaust system you can have a muffler shop remove the section with bypass valves and have these grafted onto the inner pipes of the Capristo. The inner pipes exit the muffler closest to where the exhaust enters the muffler, so that's why closing the inner pipes off reduce the noise so much. In this custom configuration you have the best of both worlds, mellow & loud...but is it safe? I don't know. Rumor has it Capristo does make optional bypass valves that can be used in this same manner. I'm confident the back-pressure isn't problematic...after all, the bypass valves will open when you get on it.

No, the stock system feeds & exits from the bottom.

Yes...there is room for bypass valves to be grafted in...BUT, unlike the Capristo the Larini has it's exit pipes at equal positions relative to the exhaust entrance. I recently tried covering the inner & outter pipes just to see what happens: the sound was reduced about 20%, not a whole lot. I don't think it's worth tinkering with.

This is important: when I had my CS system on my 360 it was LOUD, even Jon (ModenaFan) with his CS told me my car was nastier-louder then his. And here's why (as mentioned above): my car is a Euro and it has no pre-cats! Jon's car sounds great, but it's quieter then my Euro 360 running the same exhaust. I recently talked with a mechanic who installed a CS system on another 360 and he said it sounded much nice then it did on mine.

My point is, the Larini on my car is not terribly loud at the bottom-end, but louder then I expected. Still good; my wife loves it and enjoys driving the car...she instantly told me she liked it. On a U.S. car the Larini will be even more mellow...so don't worry about it on your car!

At start-up it's incredibly loud, all 360's are: the idle is higher to help it warm, the vacuum hasn't developed to close the (reguarly open) bypass valves AND the air-pump is pumping air into the cats to heat them up: LOUD LOUD LOUD. After a few seconds the bypass valves get their vacuum and close (yes, bypass valves are open in their sitting position; it requires vacuum to close the valves...this is why disconnecting the vacuum lines to the bypass valves render then open all the time). After a minute or two the idle calms and after a few more moments the air-pump turns off. My car leaving the garage is LOUD, my car coming back into the garage is mellow.....

I very much did not like my CS exhaust system. I didn't like the abrupt clank-ON and abrupt clank-off of the bypass valves. Without the bypass valves it was too loud, and the top-end was more of a loud race-car/stock-car...not so much an F1-shrill. BUT my no pre-cat Euro car is harsher to begin with. On a U.S. car the CS is different. It might be your cup of tea and it does offer that dual personality of quiet/loud.

The Tubi, to me, is painfully dull & mellow....BUT if you put some aftermarket cats on it, then it comes alive. You may want to consider an X-Ost; same design as a Tubi but supposedly a bit better sounding and much cheaper.

Okay...I take it back: maybe one can write too much and need to apologize for a long post What can I say...I type very fast, enjoy writing and like sharing my experience with others: it ain't no fun changing exhaust systems and wasting money!!!

 

Steve always the best man to answer any exhaust question ...

 

I would LOVE to have that same horrible noise coming from my garage

 

Hey Steve R is my exhaust superstar also, but I have a 360 Spider and I retrofitted a F430 stock exhaust on the car and it is absolutely incredible. Everyone that hears it cannot believe the sound. You have to use the complete F430 exhaust including the pipes and tail outlets. Use the stock 360 catalytic converters.

The best part of this system is it stays quiet under 4000 RPMs, so in the neighborhood, I can sneak out by keeping the car in 3rd gear, but once Im out I let 'er rip!

I don't think any microphone can do a exhaust justice. You need to hear it in person. Once again, I am soooo happy with my exhaust now. By the way, contrary to some beliefs, the F430 stock exhaust is NOT a CS exhaust. It is a completely new exhaust that was created for the F430. Due to the difference in engine sizes between the 360 and the 430, the exhaust tone with the F430 on the 360 is much higher and beautiful sounding.

I would bet this system would give any out there a run for the money, and its Ferrari so you still can keep the whole car Ferrari without going aftermarket.

The labor to put the F430 on my 360 was $800 which was a little high because there were 2 brackets that had to be custom made. I can change back to the original 360 just by putting back the original stock 2 brackets.

Believe me, I did my research for almost 4 months on exhausts. Listen to all the sound clips, all the Mytubes etc....you have to go with the sound you are looking for. It's all subjective what you think sounds good compared to others.

I like that fact that the bypass on my exhaust stays close at low RPMS just in case I want the car to be quiet.. but the car takes on a whole new personality above 4,000 RPMS.. You should see the look on peoples faces when I drive by them.

Best of luck

 

Any chance you could record that for us anyway? I'd like to hear it.

 

I still think that the ultimate exhaust would be a Capristo level 3 with bypass valves on all four exit pipes. Just not controlled by vacuum; all four valves would have to be controlled electronically with servo controllers. There would be no clanking, as the valves would open and close as a function of RPM. The outer valves would never fully close, of course. In a perfect world, the curves would be worked out on a dyno. Some enterprising individual could come up with a retrofit kit that could just bolt right on to the exhaust outlet pipes and wired up to the car.

 

Hi, Steve I am convinced you are the superstar & exhaust expert in the Forum and thanks for sharing the valuable exhaust information with us.

By the way , my 2002-360 is running a Tubi exhaust with OEM cats but I tend to be OK with the sound (May be I am new to Fcar and have no comparison). However, the OEM cats overheat issue caused a "slow-down" light on that made me think I need to replace the OEM cats with Larini sport cats; Note: the slow-down light was on after 30 min. aggressive driving; anyway after it was cooled down; I restarted the car and after 1 min ride the "slow-down" was gone and the Dealer said it should be OK and it was due the cats temp was too high.
So, before I go ahead to order the Larini cats - please kindly comment if you have any other concern and suggestion.

Lastly . what is pre-cats (sorry for stupid question, I just had my 360 last Dec. and it has been in storage since Jan.)

 

Took delivery of my 360 Spider two weeks ago I had the Tubi NGT fitted along with the Hyperflow Cats it is a great sound snarls at start up then really has a deep roar sounds more bass than the Capristos I have heard when you accelarate.
Martin

 

The Larini is probably about 30% louder then stock at idle, but it has a HUGE powerful rich bass sound...it also has a phenominal "report" as the rpm's increase and any backing-off of the gas results in "back-burble". It's exotic, it's powerful and far more dynamic then the intolerably dull stock OEM exhaust. It is pretty brutal at start-up with the increased rpm's and air-pump running...but in a matter of short minutes it's mellowed. Since you too have a Euro, I would be a little concerned if you have a spider. If you have a coupe it's just sublime...I enjoy the sound with my top-up as well...very smooth & sexy!

As for the X-Ost, from what I hear some ex-employee's left Tubi and literally stole the plans & design. I've been told the X-Ost is a complete knock-off of the Tubi, but I've also been told it's improved in sound by a bit. I can't recall who the forum member is, but he got impatient waiting for me to get my Larini and he ordered an X-Ost...he complained that it was pretty mellow & quiet...which is very consistent with the Tubi. He moved immediately to put aftermarket cats on it to help it out...we're awaiting the snow to melt to get his feedback. My hunch is that the cats did the trick and brought the life out of the otherwise mundane system. RayJohn's has a Tubi w/HyperFlows and the term 'delighted' doesn't begin to do justice to his feelings about it...BUT he'll be the first to admit there's absolutely no "F1" quality to it; it don't scream nor shrill.

A friend of mine named Oliver (forgot his screen-name) did the same thing on his 360. He was happy with it too....but you are 1,000,000% correct: it's all subjective....just cause I can write novels about exhaust systems does NOT make me right!!!!

BUT, on that note....you may be mistaken about the 430 system not being different then the CS system. Daniel at Ricambi (reknown Ferrari parts deity) looked it up and found that the part# for the muffler section of the CS exhaust was the same muffler section for the "360 Sport Exhaust" AND the same muffler section for the 430 Stock exhaust. Again: IDENTICAL part number in the Ferrari catalog. The tail-pipes vary, but the essential muffler section is the same....as is the design of completely bypassing the muffler section when the bypass valves are open!

BUT, I agree with you about the engines being different between the 360 and 430 and needing different mufflers. A friend asked if Larini had a system for the 430 and I discovered (back many months ago) they didn't. So I asked the boys at Larini why they don't just make new pipes and use the 360's same muffler section (as Ferrari does for their 430 & CS system). The boys at Larini told me they wouldn't use the same muffler section as the engines have different dispalcement and all sorts of different needs.....which actually gives rise to the question "is it okay to use a 430 muffler on a 360"??????

That's what I was going to do, but you don't need bypass valves on all 4 tips, just the inner tips. Once the inner tips are closed, the whole system is really quite mellow and then it's Armagedon when they open. Only problem is, Capristo's are all about shrill & top-end....they don't have a low-end bass, they drone/resonate and many guys won't admit it for fear of typing non-PC thoughts...but many find the Capristo's very "tinny". Let's not even get into the recent inner weld defects and mount breaks.

Wow...I have no idea about the overheat issue & the slow-down light related to the over-heating of the cats; we need Rifledriver, Mufflerman or GCalo on this one. Cats are supposed to get hot to burn-off gases. Also, I think the sensors are more about evaluating the air in terms of content, not so much the temperature. But this I do know: those same sensors that are giving you problems are still used, they are merely unscrewed from your OEM cats and re-screwed into the after-market cats...so you may have the same problem. I've never heard of that problem, I'm thinking one of your sensors is on the fritz? The only hope that an after-market cat would help is that they are less restrictive so perhaps they'd let the exhaust flow quicker and thus run cooler??? That's a lot of money to spend on a hunch!....treat the cause, not the symptom!

Capristo's aren't about bass or low-end "umph"...they are all top-end screamers! The NGT is impressive, often criticized as a "track-only" system....very loud. I heard one (Ron's) and it sounded awesome. You added cats too?? Wow....hope you have a good dental plan!


Hey guys....

Much of owning these cars is enjoying discussing them, hanging-out with buddies, going on drives and sharing this sort of info. I went through a lot and I'm one of the many guys on the forum who like to do my research and make educated decisions. That said, I just enjoy this subject and like to share what I've learned...but it doesn't make me right. I appreciate all the compliments and even the teasing (to some degree....Ron, your ride is OVER!)....but seriously, don't let my opinions do more then flavor your thoughts....what one person loves is another's agony. The fun is figuring it out.

- Steve

 

Before you order aftermarket cats I would address the so called cat overheating problem with your dealer.

 

I've only had the X-OST for about 3 days but I fall in love with it everytime I start the engine. To choose an exhaust is so personal. Everyone's ear and taste in sound is different.

In my short experience, I chose the right one. I like it better than Tubi. I was able to hear a Tubi on a friend's car recently. Although it sounded ok, it was raspy, choppy, and inconsistent to me. People complain about the cockpit resonance. I never really heard it personally. But on my X-OST, there is no resonance at all; I am sure on that.

I live in a fairly conservative area, and I guess I feel I am a little reserved as well so I am not about the high pitch scream and waking up the neighbors. I like the X-OST for its aggressive, yet subdued idle. The roar is awesome, yet won't break any eardrums. It purrs with confidence. It's hard to describe.

I really think you need to listen to some sound clips of all the exhausts. There's some good ones on this forum if you pull a search.

 

I don't believe the CS at top rpm sound is raw noise myself, but here's a video clip of a nice CS getting towards that top rpm area.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr2ZtxVwB2M