Was this just a big waste of expensive missiles ?...
Was this just a big waste of expensive missiles ? https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/aircraft-propulsion/hobby-clubs-missing-balloon-feared-shot-down-usaf
Pretty much. Joe suddenly needs to look like TT Tucker and his bunch of tough mother you know whats. It looks very Presidential.
Looks like folks are going to need to file flight plans for their balloons or put transponders on them. Otherwise some more target practice for NORAD. Hopefully those were first generation AIM-9X missiles.
Thats hilarious. Joes Air Force. The one bad balloon and he lets it fly coast to coast. The toys he shoots down right away. We know everything thats launched in the PRC and a bunch of other miscreant countries. I would have liked to hear the conversation that took place over shooting those things down.
Did you read the article? These balloons are not new. One guy said his is on its third time around the globe. They routinely fly over China and NK (and the US/Canada/etc/etc). They have exemptions from FAA flight plan requirements because of their light weight. And all of a sudden the US is shooting them down with missiles. LOL. The pilots should be grounded if they can't identify a 6 lb balloon flying at 20-30k ft before launching missiles. Everything else that needs said is P&R.
Yup, sounds like the exemptions may go away. Pilots have no trouble identifying what the objects are. Problem is they were directed to shoot them down, period. Looks like the searches for the objects in Alaska and Canada have already been abandoned as a waste of money after someone actually listened to the pilots.
To be fair to Plugs, they were under a lot of pressure to shoot down the Chinese weather balloon. Yes that may actually have been a weather balloon that was blown off course. The other objects were likely targeted as a response to the number of UFO/UAP sightings. Kirby said recently that this President was taking action with regards to these sightings. And also a new task force has been created. Seems there are good arguments for NOT shooting at these things.
Affirmative, the first F-22A had a balloon victory on its nose, but I doubt the next ones and the F-16 were too proud of their "victories". Unlikely we will get another Frank Luke out of this, even though they were the first balloons shot down by us since 1918.
Yea but there's nothing like the big fireball of a hydrogen filled rigid airship when it pops. And I doubt anyone will be landing on the top of one.
definitely no shortage of hot air in Washington to fill it up for free my question was meant as a serious one - if F-22s are the only weapon in our arsenal that can launch an A2A missile at those altitudes. side note: last week in New Orleans on Bourbon St 2 F-15 Eagles roared overhead. Didn't know we still flew them, awesome to see!!! I suggested to my wife that she give them a flash and maybe they'd drop some beads down
The first balloon at 60,000' could only be reached easily by an F-22A with its pilot partial pressure suit. Other fighters could have shot it down using a pop-up/zoom maneuver and an AIM-120 with its longer range. The other three balloons were at lower altitude easily reached by all of our fighters. The smaller balloons were likely not ideal targets.
What NORAD needs is a major AI program in control that can definitively identify these things. They can call it "SKYNET".
I get that a shell casing would be fatal if it hit someone on the ground/water, but other than the vicinity of a super densely package metro area the chances of that happening have to be smaller than minuscule. Except for the one high over Alaska a quick burst of bullets from close range would have been so much cheaper, and more fun for the pilot, to bring those UFOs down.
I do not think any aircraft puts brass over the side anymore. That went away early in the jet age. Its all ejected into an internal hopper anymore. Planes were shooting themselves down with their own ejected brass and at those speeds in close air support missions they were hurting people on the ground. They were worried about projectiles. A 20mm projectile weighs nearly 1600 grains. Think 10 30-06 bullets. Its leaving the gun at 3400 feet per second. With that ballistic coefficient shot from 60,000 feet it will land a couple counties away and it will explode when it gets there. A 2 second burst is going to put 200 rounds in the air going who knows where. Yes, chances of hitting a person is low but if its your mom, its a big deal and Biden impeachment proceedings would start the next day. Even if just a few hit a farm house and the rest ended up in the adjacent pasture the political fall out would be immense. Bad idea unless there is a real shooting war gong on.
Surely they could program the gun to only sling 5-10 shells at a time? Just line up the balloon with Canada or the ocean behind it... Surely all kinds of debris falling from a missile hit. Or miss. OK I'm sure they weighed all that and had some good reason for using an expensive missile. Hope that it was lower chance of collateral damage, and not just an opportunity to test them again a slow, small, low temp object.
There was also the fact that an F22 gun port will not even open at that altitude. Last I heard some of the Vulcan 20mm cannons had an adjustable rate of fire but only over a small range of speed. Not sure they still do but they are not programmable. Intellectual exercise in any event. At 60,000 the gun is not available to the pilot.
Brian- Affirmative on keeping the brass in the aircraft. Our F-111s could carry 2000 rounds of 20 mm and there was a huge drum to catch the empties.
A lot of damage from time to time from .50 cal brass raining down. I can imagine the damage 20 or 30mm could do. Boots Obermeyer, Americas premier match rifle maker's real business is making 20mm barrels for Vulcan cannons. One of several contractors.
When I was a Flight Engineer on USAF MH-53 helicopters, we were required to write-up the tail rotor blades for maintenance inspection whenever we shot the minigun from the tail ramp at airspeeds over 100 KIAS. The spent 7.62mm brass could cause damage if it was carried-up into the tail rotor. I don't remember there being any similar airspeed concern for the .50 cal, maybe because the cases were much heavier and not prone to being blown into the tail rotor? Normally, all of our casings and belt links from the tail were simply directed overboard. The links and cases from the right and left door gun positions were retained in large canvas bags or "brass catchers". Of course...we are talking about "helicopter" speeds and alttudes here!
