Another Hudson Thing

So'k Bob. I wonder the same thing. Tried to explain it to my 15yo son today and
couldn't.

Sh!ttyy stuff, this. Very sad.... how can this stuff happen anyway?

Jedi

 

If we have so many accidents on the pavement, imagine how bad it would be with flying cars.

 

Sheesh...you're not kidding. Every time I see some jerk*$$ working on desiging a flying car I think, "What the hell are you trying to do???" Just imagine what the "Fast & Furious" crowd would do with those.

Terrible news from NY, though. I feel for the families: it is such a freak thing and I can only imagine the shock. I also fear what kind of legislation may arise from such an incident.

 

It has been reported that the pilot of the Hilo had been alerted that there was traffic behind him, but the pilot did not respond.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/08/09/330764/ntsb-tour-helicopter-pilot-warned-of-traffic-moments-before-collision.html

 

The photo of the plane with one wing in midair is chilling.

 

I don't even want to see it.

There used to be a time when folks flew around in Champs, Cubs, Stearmans and Luscombes without radios, kept their heads on a swivel outside the cockpits and followed the rules of the road. Most everybody did just fine.

While many may find it silly, this is why I am against training someone pre-pilot in a glass instrumented cockpit - too many play pretties to look at and not enough looking outside the plane. At this rate. we'll all have to have avoidance detectors and txps.

thanks,
dba Grumpy Old Man

 

As the skies become more and more crowded, I would think this would be welcomed en masse but is there a general consensus among pilots who don't want avoidance systems on board private planes because of cost or personal opinion? BTW, what is the average cost for systems like the ones you mention?

I can see why pilots would be distracted pretty easily with or without training due to fatigue, internal/external distractions, communications problems, overconfidence, etc.

 

The "big sky" theory breaks down at arrival and departure airspaces and is particularly aggravated around major metro areas with complicated class B airspaces. Narrow VFR corridors are often carved out and traffic gets funneled into these, increasing the chances of a mid-air.

 

There is no substitute for a pair of Mk1 eyeballs and brain.

I absolutely agree that we need controlled airspace, but we cannot abdicate see and avoid.

 

Absolutely!

 

The only 'close calls' that I have had were in FAA controled airspace. Seems that pilots get lazy when big brother is watching and calling the shots. My son has been in and out of that area in biz jets ans says it is very busy.

 

Shack.
This sums a lot up.

 

(Off-topic a bit)

I'm no pilot, but I agree with Russ on this one. Last weekend I went up as a passenger on a Discovery Flight. I was sitting in the back, and noticed traffic low and out front. When I mentioned it, the CFII said "There's nothing there, I'd see it on the screen."

That nothing went below us pretty closely and then tacked onto our six for a bit until he peeled off at a private strip. I suppose Stearman biplanes don't carry modern transponders, eh? I'm sure it was safe, but I'd like the guys up front to know where the other planes are...
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I agree with this 100%... The FAA crams vfr traffic down into a small tube of airspace and then wonders why planes are hitting each other...

As is typical now the non flying public is calling for "more control" and saying that ATC should be controlling all airspace, when their controls actually cause the problem.

It's like when the FAA did the big airspace grab back in the 80's, so there was a big increase in "controlled traffic", and now, after they grabbed all the airspace they want to raise "fees" to cover the cost of all the ATC system that an awful lot of GA aircraft really don't need anyway...

 

Maybe we should lighten it up a bit, here's a true story from the family archives...

My wife's family used to vacation at Marathon in the Keys every spring. One year in the mid-80's, my wife to be and her twin (married) sister flew down to Ft. Liquordale and caught a commuter 421 down from there to Marathon. As they are loading up (I should mention at this point that my wife is a knockout) the young pilot offers to put her in the right seat, for the short hop to Marathon. The young pilot is chatty, talking aviation lingo, pointing out what various instruments do, and laying it on pretty thick, making an every effort to impress the very striking single blonde with his obvious total command of the sky, ........

As they are going by homestead the pilot (who has headphones on) gestures out toward her side and says "do you see any airplanes out there?" (ATC having alerted him to traffic)... My wife, (who at this time had been flying with me a lot) looks out and turns back to the pilot and says...

"Yea, I've got him, he's at three o’clock and two......."

Pilot is stone quiet for the rest of the flight.... After they shut down he turns to her and says, "You've been around airplanes some haven't you?" "She says (knowing full well that commuter pilots make next to nothing), "Yea, my boyfriend has his OWN airplane"....

 

Thanks for the feedback from everyone's perspective. I'm in 100% agreement that nothing beats good judgement and good eyesight as the examples above have shown. I'm also of the mindset that you can't automate everything or put complete controls into the hands of the very people who are already swamped in the busier metro areas. As a non-pilot, I don't want more regulation or having pilots/ATC getting too comfortable with a shift of responsibilities because of systems telling them what they should or shouldn't see. IMO, the point of these avoidance systems (electronics/communications) is to help, not completely take over or put trust elsewhere. That biplane is a perfect example.

Bob, I just happened to be watching "Alive" last night and was a bit surprised to see your friend's comment. Maybe I misunderstood the context but I think I understand what you're getting at here. Is it fair to assume from her perspective that she might've been concerned more about a search/rescue type of ordeal? BTW, the good ol' days sound like they were really fun. More time enjoying the experience vs being inundated with info.

Solo, funny stuff!

 

ABSOLUTELY Mr. G.O.M! These pretty panels are attracting the "video game" set who don't realize that when it says GAME OVER its really GAME OVER! Much more emphasis needed
on good old see and avoid and less on the pretty pictures on the panel.

+1000

 

Another reason why we need more concrete - more airports. We can't continue to expand the aviation system without more airports, and someones ox is gonna get gored
when they put it next to them. That is the price for progress, unfortunatly.

 

For a while there were screams for more control, but now we find that the controller who was working the flight was talking to his girlfriend on the phone at the time where he shoulda/coulda been calling traffic to the Piper.... So increasing ATC or limiting VFR in the corridor is going to help if the controllers are yacking on the phone instead of doing their job?

Per aeronewsnet.com

Controller And Supervisor Likely To Be Fired
Investigations by NTSB and FAA show that the Teterboro Airport Air Traffic Controller was on the phone with his girlfriend at the time of Saturday's mid-air collision over the Hudson River. Both he and his supervisor, who was unable to be located at the time of the accident, have been suspended. FAA officials say they will likely be fired.

Both people, who have not been identified, seriously deviated from their assignments, according to investigators. While it is not believed that the controllers phone conversation had any bearing on the accident, FAA Administrator Randy Babbitt said the controllers actions were "unacceptable", according to the New York Daily News.

Audio recordings from the tower revealed the phone conversation. "In conjunction with the FAA's participation with the NTSB's inquiry into the recent Hudson River accident, we learned that the controller handling the Piper flight was involved in apparently inappropriate conversations on the telephone at the time of the accident,"



I realize that that the Piper and the helo were in vfr and both had the final responsibility to "see and avoid", but if the controller could see the helo and the Piper on his screen, and was in contact with the Piper he should have at the very least given a traffic callout to the Piper.