Another P0422 thread... | FerrariChat

Another P0422 thread...

Discussion in '360/430' started by Where's Maranello, Apr 9, 2023.

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  1. Where's Maranello

    Dec 17, 2020
    84
    Nor Cal
    Full Name:
    Bob
    I have smog coming up on my '01 360, so I thought I'd finally replace my downstream O2 sensors. I had the code a while back and two guys I know that have 30+ years in smog experience, sniffed it and said, "It's running clean just the downstream O2 sensor is sending a bad signal to the computer." "Cats are working". I put on my two brand new OEM sensors, drove maybe 20 miles and check engine light is back on. Same 0422 code. I have new (I believe rebuilt with new pre-cat insides) exhaust manifolds, all stock exhaust.
    What to look for next?
    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,948
    The Cold North
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    Tom
    P0442 has nothing to do with oxygen sensors. That cose is an Evaporative emissions fault. In other words you have a leak in the fuel system.

    Do you smell fuel? First thing to check is the gas cap. Second would be the purge valves to be sure they are mechanical sealing when they should. Easy way is to see if they hold vacuum when closed.

    Third is a smoke test to see if you have any leaks in the system..the smoke will pin point the source of the leak. The 360 had roll over valve problems they would crack.
     
  3. Where's Maranello

    Dec 17, 2020
    84
    Nor Cal
    Full Name:
    Bob
    OK, maybe a few things going on here. My OP said code P0422. But, when I first changed the 02 sensors, I had codes 0422 and 0442. I deleted and the only one that came back (so far) was 0422. I figured the other code was a fluke since I have 3 code readers and this one is the only one that works "most" of the time on the Ferrari.
    Also, in one of the last drives I went on, after a lively series of cornering, I did smell raw fuel. I bought gas about 2 drives ago and the smell was before that. Gas cap, Hum?? I suspected the fuel tank covers so I removed the cover plates but no indication of a leak.
    I'll remove the side trim pieces in the next day or so and see if I can check the purge valves. You gave me some good places to start.
    Thanks,
    Bob
     
  4. priericky128

    priericky128 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2021
    683
    St. Louis MO
    Full Name:
    Rick
    I am pretty sure p0422 is Catalyst 2 efficiency below threshold bank 1. I am not an expert but yes the rear o2 reading is likely throwing the error.

    It is possible there is a real condition causing the error but the rear o2s aren’t hard and relatively quick to do.




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  5. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,948
    The Cold North
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    Tom
    Cat efficiency is a p0420 fault.
     
  6. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
    14,274
    Sydney
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    Ian Riddell
  7. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,948
    The Cold North
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    Tom
    WTF..I'm.such a knob. I should have also checked my code sheet. I went generic..from memory..
     
  8. Where's Maranello

    Dec 17, 2020
    84
    Nor Cal
    Full Name:
    Bob
    OK, we have many codes bouncing around in this thread. I've documented mine in the photo. Here's what I've done so far. Gas cap is tight. Purge valves (photo) do not hold vacuum for more than 3 seconds from 10 lbs. Both are the same. I don't know how to check to know they are "closed". I will try to add pressure to the gas tank and see if I can hear the roll over valves leaking. I read they crack, and you can hear air leaking. Also, difficult to replace unless you cut a small access hole in the panel, (OK, take a deep breath). We're not there yet.

    Now, the other code. P0422. Someone suggested to replace the 02 sensor, but I just did. Both brand new Ferrari brand sensors. And sniffing the car at a smog shop shows the cats are doing their job and car is running clean. So I don't understand how the computer thinks there's an issue. I see Ian's screen shot where I can probably check some of the reasons. Thanks!!
    Thanks for the suggestion and anything else that may get me in the right direction.

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  9. Michael B

    Michael B F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 28, 2004
    3,762
    US of A
    Full Name:
    Michael
    I think if you had a scan tool (that could give you live data) that you would see the algorithm for the cat efficiency is exceeding the somewhat lame pattern report that the ECU wants to see. While I don't recommend extenders, or mini cats, sometimes they will get you into an acceptable pattern that will not flag a code.
     
  10. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    Looking at the chart, there are a lot of possibilities here, some you might not expect. I'm just wondering how your techs defined "running clean". NOx, C02, HC? If they did a throrough job, then I guess the new cats haven't disintegrated (I've heard of that). If they were monitoring oxygen levels at the tail pipe, then perhaps they would have picked up an exhaust pipe leak?

    If you have faith in your techs, then you could take them at their word. i.e. The respective ECU is not getting the right signals from sensor. The ECU is looking for a relatively flat waveform. I wonder if an intermittent wiring problem could cause waviness or is the ECU smarter than that? Does the ECU compare the pre-cat and post-cat sensors or are they operating independently?

    I suppose you could check the wiring from the O2 sensor to the RH ECU. The ECU hasn't faulted the O2 sensor heating circuit, so you only have to check the continuity of two wires.

    Wiring diagram here:

    https://www.dropbox.com/t/znPUE0kGWxbz9VXE

    See RH lower corner of diagram. 10S is the post cat sensor. Use a small piece of lockwire or fusewire to stick into the ECU connector sockets if your multimeter probe has oversized probes. Check the continutity between the green/black wire on sensor plug to pin 24 of the ECU lower or inboard connector, depending on whether you have a spider or coupe. Also check the continuity of black/purple wire to pin 55 of the ECU lower/inboard connector. There is a graphic in the diagram showing you the pin locations.

    When checking resistance, shake the wiring.

    Looking back through some FChat messages, I see even faulty ECUs have caused this code. Check for bent pins on the ECU.
     
  11. Where's Maranello

    Dec 17, 2020
    84
    Nor Cal
    Full Name:
    Bob
    Wow! Ian. Lots of info here. When I was young, I'd see a wiring diagram and think, there's no way I'll figure it out. Then, years of early 911's, I realized, it's just a hand full a wire going to the front of the car, hand full to the back and 5 or 6 to the engine harness. After looking at your diagram, I'm starting to "see" things. I put markings on what I need to test so maybe not so tuff. It's a spider so already checked for bent pins and all look good. I'll test in the next day or two. I need to make connectors or have my wife lend her fingers.
    I stopped at my smog guys shop yesterday and he suggested, (same as Michael's comment) to scan with live data. But could be a bad cat. It was a year ago when they sniffed it but two of them were figuring the upstream and downstream differences and came to an engine running as it should. Don't recall exact words. Then went to the guy that does all my Brake and Lamp inspections who should have a scanner. He talked technical for a few minutes and suggested this: What he will do is put an extender in then right before you test, remove it. Then hands me an extender. I think a lot of people here in CA, "play the game" with older cars and newer, stricter regulations.
    I'll follow up in the next few days with any results I get.
    Thanks again for the great info. Much appreciated.
     
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  12. cpep

    cpep Formula Junior
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    Nov 11, 2017
    438
    new york
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    CHARLIE
    You also may want to make sure the o2 harness isn't rubbing (grounding out) anywhere. That will give a fault even if the car is running perfectly. I just had it happen on a different vehicle.
     
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  13. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    +1

    I've seen at least one case of the O2 sensor wiring sitting on the exhaust manifold on a different model of F-car. Not sure if that's possible on a 360(?)
     
  14. Where's Maranello

    Dec 17, 2020
    84
    Nor Cal
    Full Name:
    Bob
    Good point. 02 sensors have brand new wiring and I zipped tied them up away from exhaust when I installed them. Should be OK.
    I also installed the extender on the passenger side. Finally, today, drove to about 50 miles and got the cell again. Got home and now I have a P0302, misfire code (only code so far). I'm wondering, if that caused the "catalyst below threshold" code? I'll start by checking the spark plug and go from there. It looks like there's many things that can cause this code. To many for my limited knowledge of Ferraris.
    Again, I'll update when I have more "useful" data.
    Thanks for all the suggestions.
     
  15. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    Not sure I follow you. Did you add an extender on one side to see if would fix the problem... or are you going to remove an existing extender to see what happens?
     
  16. Where's Maranello

    Dec 17, 2020
    84
    Nor Cal
    Full Name:
    Bob
    I added an extended to see if it would solve the cat efficiency code. And so far, after about 50 miles, the cat code did not return but the misfire code showed up. So, I thought if one cylinder on bank 1 was not firing correctly, it could have caused the 0422 code for the same side.
    Thanks.
     
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  17. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,555
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    P0302 is Cyl 2 misfire. You should check spark plug, ignition coil, wiring, and fuel injector. How many miles on your 360?
     
  18. Where's Maranello

    Dec 17, 2020
    84
    Nor Cal
    Full Name:
    Bob
    Yesterday, I swapped the number 2-cylinder coil with the number 3 then erased the code. The spark plug looked OK and I also checked the plug gap. I'll see if the code follows the coil or the cylinder. I'm driving it to the upholstery shop on Thursday for a new soft top. Even though I have 62k on the clock, I still don't like to put more miles of just random driving. That drive should be enough to set the code again. Probably be next week when I have a result.
    Thanks for the input.
     

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