antifreeze

Not quite right. Ethylene glycol lasts longer than the corrosion and lub. package and the deteriation is dependent on the system condition and driving conditions. For example, putting fresh glycol in a new, clean system will last longer than if it was put into a system that already had some corrosion and scale deposits.

Glycol will break down and form acids. You can tell if this is happening by taking the pH of your 50:50 glycol mix. If the additive package is still okay, the pH of the glycol will be around 8 to 9. If the glycol has broken down to form acids, the pH will be 7 or lower.

Adding the additives to an existing glycol system is okay, and can extend the life of the glycol system. Remember that there is sometimes precipitate that forms and is often dispersed, riding around the system. As the precipitate (scale, corrosion products) gets pumped around they may cause higher wear on the internal parts, especially water pump bearings. So, the take home message is to use the additive package if you want. Be aware that there are other things going on in the system and I (personal opinion) wouldn’t extend the glycol life more than 2x the recommended change interval. Glycol is very inexpensive compared to other maintenance and repair items.

Large trucking companies will take the glycol from the trucks, filter the precipitate, check density and pH, add the corrosion package back into the glycol and reuse it. The amount of glycol in a large truck is much more that the few gallons in a car, so they are avoiding a major expense by doing that.

 

I don't know about the anti-freeze components lasting forever. I remember the old school way was to test the specific gravity to see if it would hold up to cold temps. That test would ignore the anti corrosion benefits. Depends on the car. Some cars have very long change intervals. We'll never really know if we are over-maintaining our cars, but under-maintenance will show after a bunch of years. I understand the 360 and newer models have radiators that are not repairable by the radiator shops in the US requiring costly replacement if a problem arises, but that's just what I've heard.

 

IMO, I could care less what they market as "lasting longer due to this additive...", mine is getting a flush every other year.

 

Lets see: save $20 on anti-freeze and take the chance of eating one or two $800 radiators?

Hmmmmmmm: wonder what is the better choice?

 

The breakdown of glycol is slow even at radiator temps. Changing the fluid every 3-5 years is probably plenty. If you get one of the extended life glycols (5-7 years), it is the inhibitor package that lasts that long and it is just fine to use it for 5-7 years before replacing. Remember, do use distilled or softened water when diluting the glycol. That way you will minimize scale from calcium water hardness.

 

Jon.. any experience with propylene glycol?

 

Propylene is the same, just a less toxic glycol (if you leave it out in the open for animals to drink).

I believe the bottom line message is that no one should expect glycols to last 20 years or longer. If adding the additive package every 2-3 years will allow you to avoid a flush and fill for 6, 8 or 10+ years, then go ahead.

Some have already provided their opinions on fresh fluid fills every 2 years or so. There are no hard and fast rules. Just sort of guidelines. No one knows how fast your fluid corrosion inhibitors will last. This is why at some point, the fluid should be changed. If you ask this question, you will get a wide variety of answers. What I do know is the new corrosion inhibitors today are better than what they were 20 years ago. Extended life glycols have been tested and their additives do just fine. More pH buffering, etc.... Since I am employed in an area where these corrosion inhibitors are used, I can assure you they work very well.

If your decision is to use the additives, that will be just fine. In the end, be sure to enjoy your car.

 

Car had been sitting for three years. Thought it was interesting seeing this in the pump. Rebuilt pump front to rear, new thermostat, system flush.
Never seen this before.
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I wonder if the car had Dex-Cool in it. It has been known to gel up.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/08/gm_dexcool.html

 

In the article you linked, it said that Dex-cool is a bright orange and deteriorates into a brown sludge. I don't think this was being used since everything, hoses, gear oil and especially the oil, looked immaculate. I believe all previous maintenance was done by Ferrari.

 

The only time I have seen that much junk in a cooling system was back in the 70's and 80's when an antifreeze change was done using hard water and a bunch of scale deposits formed in the system. Most of the deposits would stick in the radiator, but many times the stuff would break off and get pumped around until they accumulated in a corner. Good thing you caught this as the deposits would have probably damaged the pump impeller given enough contact time.

 

I don't disagree with what your saying, but I believe that the specific gravity test is more about dilution than breakdown of the ethylene glycol.

 

What kind of coolant were you using? Conventional American green, Euro G05, etc.?

 

Bingo......And we sell a lot of radiators in an area with one of the purest water systems there is. 2 years max between changes.

 

what would compell anyone to run antifreeze more than 1yr?

i have been using the original "peak" since i bought my 2002 back in '75 and have religiously
changed it every year on every car since including gabriella.

i guess i call that cheap insurance. what do you think?

i'm going to ask my engine oil lab if they analyze coolant. i'd love to know what an authority
on the subject thinks.

 

One reason might be cost, another might be just too much work. If one year works for you, great. I have been running regular (green) glycol with 5 years between glycol changes and no issues for 20+ years. So just a different personal preference I guess. When radiators started to be manufactured in aluminum instead of copper, they seem to last much longer. In addition, when distilled or softened water is used instead of water from the garden hose, things seemed to last longer as well.

I should add that the only time I have replaced a radiator in one of my cars is because the plastic end cap started to leak. The radiator core was still in perfect condition. The last time I remember replacing a water pump was on my 1969 LeSabre and that was because the bearing failed at about 100K miles. Just a little personal experience.

 

I just got the car and don't know the brand of coolant used but I do know the car has always been in California so I assume hard water and US spec coolant. Didn't know hard water caused scales but I wouldn't mind making the investment in a case of bottled water to avoid this. NO, Pelligrino is out of the question; even for my baby. But i do hear Austrians have used an antifreeze additive in their wine, in the past. Maybe that is weinstein (the little crystals at the bottom of some wine bottles) in the pump. (Hmm, my car could be getting drunk without me. How rude).

 

I don't know what part of California you are from, but a guy from Apple Valley, CA posted this on BITOG,

"We just rodded this out about 8 months ago! Last time it was here and plugged up with calcium and Lime deposits we told them to run distilled water instead of tap water. I even wrote that on their reciept that the guy brought with him today.

It came back today looking like this. Guy said that Distilled water is not in their budget..........Would have been much cheaper vs us rodding this one out 2x a year."
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If you live in an area with hard water, many people have water softeners to prevent their house pipes from scaling up. If the softener is hooked up correctly, the outside garden hose water will NOT be softened, so don't use that water for your radiator. Use the water from an inside tap. It will be soft water which means the calcium and magnesium has been removed and replaced with sodium. Sodium remains soluble and does not form scale deposits.

 

I didn't mean to imply I used tap water in my cooling system. When I flushed the radiator, I used pre-mixed fluid (50/50). I actually carry a partial bottle in the boot (just in case). I hope they don't use hard water in their mix. Caterpillar actually has a pre-mix that is supposed to be very advanced called "Cat pink". Yah, it's pink but I don't know much about it.
I'm from Orange county but the water is probably even harder here.

 

I didn't mean to imply I used tap water in my cooling system. When I flushed the radiator, I used pre-mixed fluid (50/50). I actually carry a partial bottle in the boot (just in case). I hope they don't use hard water in their mix. Caterpillar actually has a pre-mix that is supposed to be very advanced called "Cat pink". Yah, it's pink but I don't know much about it.