Any 458 owners driven the Mac 12C

Have got the 2 cars right now

Looks: Very subjective, 458 has beautiful lines running from front fenders to the rear engine compartment. MP4 has the flair and drama with the scissor doors!

Handling & Performance: Have driven both the MP4 and 458. The MP4 just sets the benchmark higher and instills further confidence in cornering. You gotta drive the MP4 in track handling mode to get her tail out in corners. Yet the brake steer is awesome and puts a safety net.

458 is a very agile car, steering is more direct and lighter than the MP4. The car is ready to roll anytime. The MP4 has turbo lag below 3k rpm and feels lethargic. The only way to get it alive is for the turbos to spool above 3k rpm and the whole driving experience comes alive.

Noise: Got the inconel sports exhaust on the MP4 and it is quite loud. More baritone. The 458 exhaust wins hands down in this department, the popping and burbles on overrun just puts a smile on your face. Downshifts in 458 is so much lively than the MP4.

Engine: The 458 engine revs more freely and smoother in my opinion. The 3.8 liter turbo in the MP4 is not as smooth revving compared to the 458. But I'm waiting for software 10.0 upgrade in October whereby additional 25PS will be remapped and hopefully engine and gearshifts will add more drama!

 

I have a Mac rental for a week and would agree with most everything you've said. To me aside from power, the Mac feels more like my buddies R8. Sorry, but not a car I could buy.
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Perfectly said, IMO

 

Does anyone know if a 458 is being tested as well?


Motortrend is testing and the MP4-12C has confused their test driver. The dude was Literally flamoxed. The car put in a faster time than the aventador.

P11 video [ame]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RnPj9LRI08M[/ame]

Aventador [ame]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eIdkJRMJ-_s[/ame]

 

One's faster and one's funner.

I'll take the funner.

 

Ditto. But I do not buy that the 12C is faster than the Aventador. I have seen the same magazine's test results on both cars and the Aventador is faster than the 12C in every category! I think this test driver was just "intimidated" by the A car!!! ;-)

 

Yeah, Randy Probst, 4 time SCCA World Challenge GT Champion and 2 time Class winner at the 24 hours of Daytona is intimated by a stock Lamborghini.

The McLaren being this fast is not surprising. It is a race track animal.

 

The Lambo is quick in a straight line but seems to have more trouble in the corners (compared to the 458), other reviews of the car have said the same thing.

 

From last year, articles and video below, guess who won?

http://www.motortrend.com/features/performance/1109_2011_motor_trend_best_drivers_car/viewall.html

The 458 should be in contention this year, too.

 

Many years ago, I remember a Lamborghini spokesman stating that Lamborghini builds high-performance road cars, not race cars - a core philosophy in contrast to rival Ferrari, I assume. Seems like these days they still have the same basic philosophy (with the exception of few track based specials like the current Gallardo Super Trofeo and a few others). In admittedly simple terms, Ferrari and McLaren are race-car teams/manufacturers that also build road cars (of course, Ferrari's road car business has grown tremendously over the years). Lamborghini is in a slightly different category. Still, the bull turned out an impressive performance nonetheless. At a different track, the Aventador may be as quick or quicker than the MP4. FWIW, even with the slightly misfitted transmission, I'd rather have the Aventador.

 

+1. In fact - here is my disclaimer: I am actually finalizing my order of an Aventador next month for March '13 delivery. So I am just a little biased!

It is brutally fast in a straight line, but what separates the Aventador from all previous V12 Lambos is that this car was designed with track performance as a key requirement (but not the only requirement)

On this track on this day - MAYBE!


Check out these Nurburgring track times! Both the 458 Italia and the 12C are equally fast AND the Aventador is faster than both.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

Nordschleife, Germany (20600 m)

This is arguably the most popular most demanding and also longest track for road-car track-days, magazine tests, prototype testing and race events. Originally, the track featured four track configurations: the 28.265 km long Gesamtstrecke ("Whole Course"), which in turn consisted of the 22.810 km Nordschleife ("Northern Loop"), and the 7.747 km Sudschleife ("Southern Loop"). There also was a 2.281 km warm-up loop called Zielschleife, around the pits area. Between 1982 and 1983 the start-finish area was demolished to create a new GP-Strecke, and this is currently used for all major and international racing events. However, the Nordschleife is still in use; nicknamed The Green Hell by Jackie Stewart, it is widely considered the toughest and most demanding purpose-built race track in the world.
Show filters
Lap times (273)

Pos Make / Model Time Speed (km/h) Year Power (hp) / Weight (kg) Driven by
1. Radical SR8LM 6:48.00 182 0 455 / 650 Michael Vergers
2. Radical SR8 6:55.00 179 '05 363 / 650 Michael Vergers
3. Gumpert Apollo Speed 7:11.57 172 '09 700 / 1200 Florian Gruber
4. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 7:12.13 172 '08 600 / 1536 Dominik Farnbacher
5. Lexus LFA Nurburgring Package 7:14.64 171 '12 570 / 1509 Akira Iida
6. Donkervoort D8 RS 7:14.89 171 '05 350 / 600 Michael Duechting
7. Porsche 911 GT2 RS 7:18.00 169 '10 620 / 1370 Timo Kluck
8. Radical SR3 Turbo 7:19.00 169 '03 320 / 500 Phil Bennett
9. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 7:19.63 169 '08 647 / 1530
10. Nissan GT-R 7:21.00 168 '12 550 / 1736 Toshio Suzuki
11. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 7:22.68 168 '11 512 / 1394
12. Gumpert Apollo Sport 7:24.00 167 '07 700 / 1200
13. Nissan GT-R 7:24.22 167 '11 530 / 1736
14. Maserati MC12 7:24.29 167 '04 632 / 1335 Marc Basseng
15. Pagani Zonda F Clubsport 7:24.65 167 '05 650 / 1230 Marc Basseng
16. Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4 7:25.00 167 '11 700 / 1575 Horst von Saurma
17. Ferrari Enzo 7:25.21 167 '02 660 / 1365 Marc Basseng
18. Nissan GT-R 7:26.70 166 '08 479 / 1740 Toshio Suzuki
19. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 7:27.00 166 '11 500 / 1360
20. Ferrari 458 Italia 7:28.00 166 '09 570 / 1485
21. McLaren MP4-12C 7:28.00 166 '10 600 / 1434 Horst von Saurma
22. Porsche Carrera GT 7:28.71 165 '03 612 / 1380 Marc Basseng
23. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 7:30.00 165 '11 500 / 1360 Horst von Saurma
24. Mercedes SLS AMG GT 7:30.00 165 '12 591 / 1620
25. Porsche 911 GT2 7:31.00 164 '07 530 / 1440 Walter Rohrl

 

I'm too old for numbers on a page to impress me.

38-24-36 are some impressive numbers but under the covers, they don't mean much when the rubber meets the road.

I am reminded once of an interview with DeTomasso when someone complained that the electric windows in his Maserati closed too slowly.

DeTomaso explained: "It isn't important how fast the windows open and close. What's important is HOW the windows open and close."

 

Come on now Bob! 38-24-36 are some great numbers!

 

Aventador vs 458 is comparing apples to oranges.

458 vs Gallardo

Aventador vs F12

This is a fair comparison. Who wins?

 

I agree. But the forced comparison was brought up by the magazine putting the Aventador and the 12C in the test.

I actually think that the 458 and the next gen Gallardo coming out next year will be a better apples to apples. And unfortunately, comparing the mid-engined A car and the front engined F12 is probably not a good comparison but nevertheless closer than comparing it to V8s...

 

There's only one thing I know that is funner that is slower... And it ain't cars!

 

http://m.motortrend.com/features/performance/1208_2012_motor_trend_best_drivers_car/

Here is the answer. Apparently the 458 won last year and this year Ferrari declined the invitation to participate! Exit on top!

You might be asking yourself, "Where's the Pagani Huayra?" Let me try and explain the rules for BDC. First of all, the car has to be on sale (or at least, about to be on sale) in the United States of America. This is why we don't have Paganis, Koenigseggs, or that bright-red Ferrari on our cover, the F12 Berlinetta. Here's to next year. OK, fine, but "why no Corvette ZR1?" Well, because three years ago, when the ZR1 competed in our 2009 Best Driver's Car, it finished in 6th place behind the 2010 Shelby GT500. As Ron Kiino put it then (with a hat tip to Tom McCahill), "The ZR1 is about as hairy as a gorilla bathing in Rogaine." Since it didn't win then and hasn't been substantially changed since, we didn't invite the Blue Devil back. You will notice that last year's second-place car, the Nissan GT-R, is back. That's because Nissan has implemented a schedule of continuous Godzilla improvement, and this year's version makes more power and has a tweaked transmission and a revised suspension. We invited last year's winning Ferrari 458 Italia to come and defend its crown, but Ferrari declined. It also declined to give us the 458 Spyder, the reworked California, and the FF. Got it? Good.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/features/performance/1208_2012_motor_trend_best_drivers_car/viewall.html#ixzz24NV0mc2n

 

They are both great cars.
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Nice color choice and specs for the 12C. It looks better than the 458.

 

True!

 

False!

 

There's a lot of MP4-12c haters around so I guess I'll be the official MP4-12c advocate. Its a GREAT car. No, its FANTASTIC car. There are things I like and don't like about each. OVERALL, the MP4-12C (Ok, saying that every time is a royal PITA) it has more wins than losses. I'll most likely keep both cars in my garage so its not so much an issue for me personally.

I don't have many miles on the McLaren yet, but this is my initial impression of just random thoughts:

As a GT road-trip car: McLaren (after the GPS and Bluetooth updates)
As a track car: Ferrari (I haven't tracked the McLaren yet, so this is a guess based on street use. I have tracked the 458. It could be close)
Short course: Ferrari
Long course: McLaren
Looks: Tie (totally subjective of course).
Egress: Ferrari (especially if you are old, fat or have a bad back)
Power: McLaren
Braking: McLaren
Driver feedback: Ferrari
Low speed (in town) driving: McLaren
Engine sound: Ferrari * 2
Interior styling: McLaren
Interior comfort: McLaren
Driving on crappy roads: McLaren
Ergonomics: McLaren * 2
Current value: McLaren
Future value: Ferrari (simply supply vs. demand)
Overall (based on my personal priorities): McLaren

Again, just my initial impressions. I also think the 458 is a car that is love at first sight/drive, whereas the McLaren is a car you will learn to love. In the end its nice to have both options and one will only make the other better.

 

Great post, you can enjoy both cars without having to say one is bad or good, they are both terrific cars.

 

In this spec and color combo the 12C looks great!

Is there any perceivable turbo lag like in a Porsche 911 (997) Turbo?