Any 458 owners driven the Mac 12C

Yes its perceivable.

(thats my car btw)

I have 4 turbo cars and its MUCH less than the 997 tt (my DD btw) and less noticeable than anything I have ever owned before. There isn't even a boost gauge on the mac, which is a shame really, because when you drive a turbo car you need to see the boost gauge - helllo. This is one of the comments I already made to McLaren. And I already got a response, they are actively considering it and thanked me for my comment. Fortunately the car is so electronic in its ergonomics, they could add a boost gauge with just a software update. The software already allows you to customize your 'home screen', to choose various gauges that you want to see on your display. They could easily add a boost gauge, and it seems they are listening to their owners (unlike some companies, that shall remain unmentioned, ahem..)

So yes its perceivable but the best I've driven to date.

 

Thanks for the objective and comprehensive answer. I like your collection of cars. My DD is a normally aspirated 911 and I am waiting to take delivery of an Aventador next March. I am also eagerly awaiting the 991 GT3 to replace my DD!

 

Interesting...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbYJf4vm2go]Mclaren MP4-12C to Ferrari 458 Italia Comparison[/ame]

 

This guy reminds me of this guy! "You're gonna love my nuts!'


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUbWjIKxrrs[/ame]

 

Interesting but a little biased! The 12C is a great great car and with the latest updates is truly super fast. Has it's issues but then what car doesn't.

My thoughts posted on MLife after recent test drive in 12C Spider (previously driven 12C Coupe on track and road as well).

Car = stunning!
Weather=snow!

First small scattering of snow this winter falling with icy roads and 9am test drive all added up to enjoyable test drive but no real test of performance or roof down driving. McLaren had 6 Spiders available for the test and plenty of staff on hand.

Performance on Longcross proving grounds was stratospheric for 10 seconds of straight before heavy braking and tiptoeing round corners of snow covered ice still protected by tree cover. Had the roof down for 10 minutes but it was so cold we were both very soon shivering and looking to put the roof back up and get warm. It was so cold that it would be unfair to add much to the various comments that have been made in the press about drafts with the roof down except to say it felt pretty breezy and the heater couldn't cope and keep us warm. Interestingly 2 new 12C's were lapping Longcross doing final approval before sign off - i'm told every single 12C is driven to Longcross for testing before leaving the factory.

The fit and finish of the cars looked perfect, roof operation is smooth and fast. The car I drove had standard electric seats and I wasn't able to get low enough to see the instruments fully, apparently the seats are slightly more restricted for position in the Spider, manual seat is lower I'm told. Having said that, I sat in another Spider and I could adjust the seat to see the instruments! The lift function worked well and was needed as the hotel being used for a base had narrow but high speed humps that we hit at first attempt!

Another proper test drive is now needed with better climatic conditions but for sure the car looks pretty perfect to me. Personally I find the standard exhaust too quiet and I wasn't keen on the engine sound driving around town with the roof up and rear glass dropped - at slow speed you don't really hear the exhaust (even in track mode) but you do just get the unappealing mechanical sound of the engine which is funnelled in through the small opening. As the revs build then the exhaust takes over again and it all improves. Roof fully down the sound is much better, just too quiet for me but if I'm honest I like stupidly loud exhausts so probably best to ignore me on this.

All in all, the 12C Spider is an absolutely stunning car, amazingly fast (even in snow) and will certainly give the other manufacturers a hard time. The latest changes have made a noticeable improvement to gear change behaviour and I'm sure in better weather the extra power could be fully utilised. Easy door closure still seems an issue but I expect it is something you get used to after a while.

Well done McLaren.

 

Actually, after watching this video, I want a 458 even more

However, I am now very concerned about those knobs that can break

 

So the 458 sucks because a button broke and the leather wore down? Superb analysis there... keep in mind this guy rents these cars out in NJ to people who just beat the crap out of it, so after two years of abuse I dont think thats too bad.

 

First, a grain of salt here. This guy is a salesman for Gothan rentals and this is the new car he wants to rent. So, it's in his best interest to promote it as something new, different and better so people want to pay to rent it.

As to the broken switches, I'm not sure what he's talking about. Then again, it's a rental so..... that should tell you how people treat it. When 458 rental cars come up for sale, I don't see us jumping for joy to get one. I haven't seen anything like the switches breaking in the two cars I've owned. But, the seat leather does wear if you're not careful. That's been going on for years. I think it's a trade off between feel and durability.

I really don't like the way you have to get into a 12C. Maybe Lewis Hamilton can put up with it but climbing over a hump every time in and out of the car would get pretty old. And, if someone parks next to you with large mirrors, you can't open the door. Looks cool -- but Lambo doors work better. So, what's the point? Just to be different?

What's interesting is that he says the 12 C is a better car (" This is the least {crappy} car Ferrari makes") but never answered the question: Does the 12 C have soul?

The 12C is without a doubt a fantastic car. If you like it, go for it. Or, go for a Lambo. Or, go for the Mercedes gullwing. Any will tickle your fancy. We live in an age of great super sports cars. I hope it goes on forever.

 

I have twice rented 458s from B&W in Beverly Hills for extensive road running. Both times nothing broke. But both were helluva runs. Based on driving them, I bought a 458 from a dealer... had to have it. It has given nothing but driving pleasure.

As for the Mac comparison, always beware of people who have to put something down in order to elevate something else.

 

+1

 

I own both the 458 and the 12C and the guy doing the review is too biased. The 458 is a great car and does not deserve the poor comments. I just had the 12 C upgrade with the latest software and it's transform a great car to a fantastic car. The Major is obviously not a fan of the 12C and from reading his post mostly because of it's looks. I can respect that but looks is only one component of a car. Go test drive one and i am sure your impression will change.

 

I think that's fair. But, I do not dislike the 12C. It's not for me but that does not make it a bad car. In fact, technology wise, I think it's impressive. I wish some of it was in the 458. It would be a better car.

But as a super car, for me it falls short just a bit. For others, it's their dream. Who am I to say it isn't?

I do believe though that McLaren has poorly marketed and oversold (in numbers, not in performance) the 12C and that has lead to big drop in resale values. This is something they are going to have to deal with in the future or the brand cannot sustain itself only on people who already know the brand.

But, this has little to do with the car and a lot to do with the home office.

 

your missing his number 1 point though!! you can drive the Mac with the doors open at 25 miles per hour...seriously, what a value add!!

 

Of course there is bias. Almost all the individual Ferrari preferences come with a parenthetic hedge, as if it is grudging. I did get a laugh out of the ingress and egress entry mattering most for those "old, fat, or have a bad back." As if it is not a big deal for us "he men."

I'm just sayin'

 

Not quite "on topic" as I have a F360 Modena, but I drove the McLaren as a test-drive a while ago (same car sales guy that sold me the 360 now works at the McLaren dealer). Yes..it's better than my 360, but I didn't think it had the character.

And it doesn't have a badge that says Ferrari.

I was at the Australian showroom launch, met and listened to Ron Dennis speak about the McLaren road cars - he and his team certainly have a great passion and enthusiasm for their range of road cars - "cut us and we bleed McLaren" was a great catch-phrase that was used.

Upon driving it, it does have "theme park ride" acceleration and incredible braking.

I didn't like the gear paddle action compared to my 360.

My thoughts were that if you were buying your first car of this type, then the MAC is amazing, if you already have one the differences are perhaps incremental.

 

Badge just is not at all relevant to me, yes the McC I am sure is a great car, but I cannot get past its looks.
Yep maybe thats shallow, but for me at this sort of level of cash I do want what I find to be a gorgeous looking car...winter rain & muck etc over in the Uk currently, so car is in the garage , popped in last night for my toolbox, took the cover off the car & just soaked it up for a good few minutes, its a work of art to me, highly enjoyable even though I am not driving it.
Funnily being british I would love to love the Mcclaren, but I just cannot, the styling to me is just awful, its like Hyundai have done some sort of generic design on what a sports car should look like...'Hmmm lets put some vents down the side' hmm lets make them really big"...etc etc etc..silly thing as well dont know if I could cope with the star trek badge ..even thats 'dull', but also geeky...not a good marriage
I have sat in one, looked at one for a good 30 plus minutes from all angles in a car showroom/ in a hotel carpark...3 of them down at silverstone at this years GP..all colours as well..nope cannot get on with the styling at all.
So no matter how good it goes & handles, I cannot have one if I cannot get past the looks...its a bit like ' hey I have a great girl for you to go out with, funny and witty, really intelligent, great job, loads of money, and she is 22 stone'
Thanks but no thanks, not politically correct in this day and age but hey I dont really care, I know what I like.
THe spider version of the 12c improves the looks I admit, and all this stuff is just IMHO, If you drive a McC and ejoy it then fine..I am shallow I admit it, my 3rd car has to have WOW appeal when I open the garage door...the other 2 daily cars I couldnt care less about

 

I currently drive a 2008 F430 F1 coupe. I am considering a 12C or 458 coupe as the next step in about 6 months. Ferrari ownership has been amazing, and the 458 is many steps ahead of the 430 so I am sure the car will not disappoint on any level. I think the issue I have is that this is McLarens first "real" production car if you will, so many including myself dont know exactly how to accept it. Ferrari has made amazing cars for years, we have seen the progression from the 360 to 430 and now the 458. Each model made vast improvements across the board and the 458 is truly an amazing machine! Its hard to compete with the best.

On the flip side I am impressed with the 12C. To me, the intakes are gorgeous, and I like the way the exhausts tip outlets are placed in the rear of the car. The way the doors open are very exciting to me. The interior is simple yet sophisticated and modern. Many of the reviews rave about the acceleration on the 12C but overall the car seems to come up short in comparison to the 458. More than likely I will end up with a 458 but I am certainly going to contemplate the 12C and go for a test drive before I make a decision. I do agree that a $200,000+ car needs to stir the soul each and every time you look at the car, drive the car, think about the car.... I will drive one and see if those feelings exist! Overall, with many of the biased reviews online etc...I think many have not given the 12C the respect it deserves.

 

To me (and not ONLY me) the MP4 looks a tad too "heavy on the hips" like an athlete out of training and up on beer.

Just compare these two on the attached (real-life) photo when put side by side and maybe you get my point.

My friend, who owned the Mac of that pic, has returned it to the dealership as there was pretty bad communication between him and them and problems were not fixed as promised.

He's waiting for his 458 Spider now, btw. Just saying...

But every1 should enjoy what (s)he chooses and deserves respect for that choice.

Finally:
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, folks !

Best,
Ulli
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I agree with you about the car. However, I don't think producing many units has been an oversight on the part of the home office. McLaren obviously wants to hit the high volumes.

What is most worrisome is the reports that they plan to launch a "baby" version of the MP4-12C (project P2) in 2015. It is an MP4-12C look-alike with lower performance priced at a third of the price to compete with the 911. McLaren's goal is to compete at every category (price point) of the sports car market. I have a problem with that. If I am going to pay the amount of dough required to buy the 12C, I don't want to see "baby" 12C's all over the place, I don't even want to see the McLaren brand all over the place and especially on lower end look-alikes. It's the same strategy Mercedes has adopted with the AMG brand. It works for them, I don't think it will work with McLaren. You can't compete with Ferrari and Porsche and AMG in the same time. Their brand strategy is to be all things to all people and it doesn't make sense to me. Ferrari will never launch (I hope) baby versions of their supercars.

 

If you over produce a capital item, you penalize those who invested in it with faster depreciation. This makes owners think twice about doing it again. Simple economics.

 

Yep. I well remember the hit I took on my 996 Turbo (bought new in '02). Ouch. I didn't expect to get my money back, but geez. Thanks Porsche.

BTW, check out my post count...959!! lol.

 

Well, I can tell you that the first time my GF tried to get in and out of that car her first words would be: "Sell this dam thing!".

 

Pretty soon it will be 991

 

To me, ingress and egress is more than the ability to enter and leave something, in this case a fabulous performing sports car. It is a machine's expression of welcome -- or not. It has to do with whether this capsule of engineering, performance, and... yes... art, seems to want me to be part of it, or whether it is sending me a message: "I am technology. It is up to you to adopt to me, it is not up to me to adopt to you. My message to you upon entering me is that I can simulate those things I am not -- a space capsule on the launching pad, a race car on the track. But I don't care if you find me welcoming or not."

So while I can maneuver myself over the tub sills and flop into the heart of the capsule, it is hardly a welcome mat. My passenger, soulmate, and wife, who practices grace in everything she does and loves her three-pedal F430, gets in with a frown. You don't live with someone for as many years as I have without sensing when she doesn't like something. This unwelcome introduction somewhat colors the rest of the experience. The car has many great features but some major failings; by now everyone knows what they are. They will get better.

Let us hope that McLaren begins to understand that technology and art are partners, not contestants.