Any actual doctors in the house (especially med school docs)?

unfortunately to us on the other side this is exactly a very common, albeit true, story by the applicants, if and only if he tells the story like you did. We want to know not just plain why but rather what it means to the applicants in terms of willingness to grind through next 10 years of 80 hours a week, selflessness, and perseverance. Don't tell but show is a good way. Shadowing is basic, but it is his personal reflection that matters. What he learned about himself and how that can influence the readers to believe the projection of him as future successful doctor and bring fame to the top ranked school 10 years after graduation is the key in both personal statement and interview.

Potentials. Leadership. Dedication to protecting human life are well talked about but as cliche as it sounds, they are indeed the core things admission committee look for. The trick is how to make it not cliche in the personal statement.

Personal statement must be personal to him, then it will be easier for the interviewer to ask right questions for your son to open up.

hope this makes sense.

 

that speaks dedication. Not flaky.

this is it. this shows perseverance! not every applicant has to have someone died in the family or witness how a cardiac arrest come back in ER as a volunteer, then the dream to be a doctor sprouted. This is actually a good story to share, as long as it is not overblown.

 

These two examples would win me over to hire him…. They display 2 extremely important qualities: humanism and perseverance.
He NEEDS to tell these stories and he needs to tell them with pride. There is no modesty in medicine. He should take ownership of these redeeming qualities.
Human psychology and “listening” is a lost art in medicine. This is an incredible talent that should be fostered in his future in medicine.
Second story definitely demonstrates perseverance and the “never give up” attitude which is paramount to surviving residency. I will always remember the challenges and failures in residency that molded me towards success. I remember vividly missing a hematoma on a latissimus flap reconstruction for a shoulder sarcoma on a reconstructive rotation. Chief of my department chewed me out so hard, I never ever forgot that. But never give up! Looks like he can carry this torch.
He sounds humble, but in a sense that can shadow confidence. I would encourage him to be confident in all that he does, that is part of medicine.


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I can’t speak for all medical schools but I went to University of Rochester and at that time I was doing my PhD in neuroscience at Harvard.
Rochester looked for interesting people who appeared to have strong reasons for going into the art of medicine. I was on the admissions committee for a couple years (they had a couple students each year on the committee), because they valued the perspective of students in evaluating incoming applicants; I guess we were like “boots on the ground.”
I would be handed a 3’x5’ card with the applicants name and where he/she was coming from—that was it. If getting an interview they already decided that the person was qualified, now they wanted an honest assessment of what kind of person the applicant was.
Everyone had high GPAs, everyone had nice letters of recommendation, and usually everyone did well on the MCAT (at that time Rochester didn’t require MCAT because they were more interested in the person’s story than numbers—but everyone submitted their scores and if so they were looked at).
The question often comes down to, “what makes you so special we want you in our med school contributing to the community, and will we be proud of you as a graduate?” I know they wanted to know that because we we told to be thinking about that when interviewing applicants.
I had my published PhD work from Harvard (and had strong letters from 2 deans at Harvard), but in my class (off the top of my head nearly 30 years ago) was a professional opera singer who just toured Europe, Green Beret who had seen service in South American drug war), Navy fighter pilot who recently was flying off carriers in first gulf war, Olympic rower—IIRC he got a bronze medal, single Mom with 2 kids who put herself through school while raising kids and working, and many other similar stories. They all had “side stories” to their school work. Oh...and when we put on the annual play they could all act, sing, and dance like crazy! (Except me..lol....).
Not sure if this helps of not....

 

exactly. To the op, this is exactly your engineering background with focus on number may bias your view of how to get accepted to medical school. There is another old saying, you can't be a good doctor if you are not a good person to begin with. So focus on building your son's inner core is going to be very helpful in the long run.

 

You are indeed correct in many respects and it is frustrating. But what is an admissions committee to do when they get ~8500 applicants for ~110 spots (my enrolling class statistics at Rochester)? Every student has amazing grades, every student has great test scores, every student has letters of recommendation.
So what are they supposed to use as objectifiable criteria? Every single applicant will tell you (or have letters that tell you) he/she is nice and has a kind heart. Every applicant will do everything they can through documented deeds or in a personal statement to convey compassion, commitment, dedication, conscientiousness, a relentless spirit to never accept a second best result, and of course—a kind soul. As one of my medical school professors once explained “What defines a good doctor?...You’ve been working all day, you’re tired, you finally get to leave the hospital late at night and you are walking across that huge frozen parking lot (remember...Rochester) to your frozen car and get it started and warming up, and then you realize you forgot to check one of your patient’s lab results. A good doctor gets out and walks back to the hospital, a bad doctor drives home.”
So all else “being equal,” all scores and grades exemplary what does being a Green Beret tell you? What sort of person gets a medal as an Olympic athlete? Who becomes a fighter pilot and flies jets off an aircraft carrier in the middle of the night? Do you want one of those people making the tough calls or pounding on your chest and shooting you up with Epi as you are being coded at 2 am and no one else is around? You’re damn right you do. What is a professional successful opera singer likely to represent as opposed to someone who writes in an essay he/she sang opera for their local school play, or local theater?
Peoples’ success means something, it tells a story. They want to see that story in many cases, not all cases mind you, but many cases. Remember, every applicant has strong credentials.

 

Oh, I think you are focusing onto certain qualification too much. Medical school is not a circus meaning that one does not have to be "different" to be entering medical school. This is what I mean your background as engineer focusing number and data alone would make it difficult to see what is important to admission committee. Let's use Olympian for example. The training they underwent required complete dedication and sacrifice at young age, meaning that they have to have extraordinarily strong will to grind it through 10 years of training, and that means they practiced so much for goals 4 years later, which is like medical students. You study so hard with an unwavering mindset with the goal so far away.

Green beret/pilot fighter - same concept and with more with willingness to sacrifice your life for your country and people you never met and never will meet. Not much speaks more volume about this for sacrifice and selflessness. Then of course teamwork.

It is not what they do. It is why they do what they do, and through the endeavors what personal trait were demonstrated. These are what ad com are looking for in applicants who not only will be a fine doctor but a great one and bring fame to the medical school. Again. Potentials.

So relax, don't get too hung up about other applicants credentials. DO NOT GO TO SDN. You will freak yourself out unnecessarily and inevitably affect your son. As a father, you need to make sure you are supportive to your son the way he sees fit. If there is a potential you will be overbearing, let's take a deep breath. Trust me on this one, as I just went through this process myself with my son, and as a doctor for 17 years dealing with medical students and residents day in and day out until 4 years ago.

Believe in your son, he sounds a great kid who will get in. He just needs to learn how to express his reflections of his own endeavors. You or the counselor can help with everything on paper, but it all comes down to him by himself in the interview.

Apply to many school. Don't be picky. A doctor is a doctor, does not matter what school, of course if there is a choice to choose which school, then it is different.

He may get MCAT of 520, 97% and you can relax!

Like I said if he wants it, he will make it happen.

 

ABSOLUTELY. I used to tell my residents... don't get too hung up with lawsuits and order every single tests on earth to cover your ass. As long as you are treating your patients like the mother you love and do right by the patients, they very likely will know it, and you will be fine.

 

To the op, sees these two responses from me and him came at the same time basically saying the same thing. That means a lot, right? So listen to us, relax. Your son will get in if he truly wants it bad enough like the Olympian who wants the medal. Do you know how bad he wants to be a doctor? Just ask him what he wanna do if he does not get in the first time? Then tell us his answer. This is also a question that is often asked.

 

Lol...as you were typing I was trying to remember the pearl of wisdom correctly, and corrected it.

 

My son has great credentials even in my eyes, and I have pretty tough eyes. He applied to top 50, interviewed at 2 of top 5 and mid-top tiers schools, and he now is in NY. Apply as many as humanly reasonable, because the secondaries are a biaych to finish. Definitely apply to Harvard, you just never know. Number 1 mistake for premed at this point is overestimating one's own credentials and only apply to tops school. Apply top, mid tier and bottom tier school. You just never know!

 

(My advice is from my experiences in early-mid 1990s.)
He applies to many schools because different schools will have different agendas and emphasize different things. Some schools prioritize primary care, others are more research based. He can look into committing himself for a period of time to Native American health service, if that program still exists. I think for each year of Med school you pledged equal time to doing primary care to underserved areas. If it is really important to him maybe look into doing some similar service for a year or two before applying to Med school. But don’t do it just to buff an application, they are good at spotting that—there needs to be a consistent theme to his story. There are also D.O. schools, still competitive but a little less so than traditional allopathic Med schools. He can still do specialized fellowships, or primary care with a D.O. In my medical community there are excellent D.O. primary care docs.
Another thing is apply around the country. Schools often have demographic diversity criteria. They want people from around the country and all walks of life to fill out their class. A kid who worked on the family farm in South Dakota adds interest and diverse points of view to a Med school in NYC or Miami for that matter. If he is from NY then Minnesota or Hawaii may find him more interesting as well.
There are many avenues, and if determined he will realize his dream.
And yes, he should apply to Harvard and many other top schools, there is a capricious nature to the process and his application could spark someone’s attention. It is arduous, but so is the education, so that better not be a barrier.
My medical partner’s son applied to many colleges, brilliant kid, and was getting shot down left and right from his dream reach schools. He got accepted to Yale. The guy responsible for representing his application to the admissions committee wrote him a nice letter and told him the reason he pushed for his acceptance was because, “Anybody who can put Cicero and Eminem together in an essay like you did deserves to be at Yale.”
(Just to expand on that anecdote above about Yale, a little life lesson that may be germane: he wanted to do physics at Yale but had to change majors because it was too difficult and competitive. Another friend’s son got accepted to UCF in Orlando (Honors College) and majored in physics. He has a beautiful suite in a gorgeous high rise dorm, dedicated buildings for the Honors college, and got hooked up for an internship with some NASA affiliate, or maybe NASA itself—not sure, not far away near Cape Canaveral. He apparently is loving it and has a bright future lined up in aerospace.)

 

Wow! You are a Rochester optics guy!? They have a very very highly regarded optics program.
Then you can appreciate the story of walking through that huge parking lot from Strong Memorial freezing at night...lol!
My wife and I bought a house in the 19th ward across the river and had many cold mornings and nights walking to and from.
I loved my years at Rochester Med and doing my Internal Med at Strong Memorial...great place!

 

My oldest son was born at Strong. At the time I was a resident and one of my resident friends helped with the delivery.

I hope your son finds a way to fulfill his dreams, it has been a great privilege to be a doctor (now retired). Medicine is drastically changing but still needs great compassionate people.

btw...during my ob/gyn rotation in Med school I had to catch a couple dads who passed out during the delivery.

 

as we speak, he is having storm right now and 90F tomorrow. Why does he have to apply for DO right away?