Any advantages to a missing thermostat??

a bit late into the discussion, but I was curious as to how long you may have had the subject vehicle?

as you are replacing the water pump, the missing thermostat may be an indication that the vehicle was at sometime having over-heating problems and somebody may have removed the thermostat in an effort to reduce the problem?

best wishes

 

Dave Helms - This was a useful and non-personal intellectual discussion. No, you guys weren't beating up on me, simply a poor (perhaps inappropriate) witty comment on my part. Keep these discussions coming.

Jim S.

 

Very good point. Sometimes after I post a reply, I think I'm going to need Nomex for all the flames. This has been a very good post.

 

I have, in emergency situations run a car & truck without a thermostat. The Ferrari is still an internal combustion engine. The cooling system may be a bit different than some but the principals still apply.
Here is what I got and you will most certainly get without a thermostat:
1) Very long engine warm up times.
2) Much lower than "normal" operating temps driving the car normally.
3) Less fuel economy and poor heater operation.
4) Under some conditions of rpm, load, road speed and ambient temperatures, you may still experience overheating due to cavitation or improper flow.

So, unless you are an engineer or have really deep pockets, I suggest this is really a bad place to start guessing at smoke inspired theories only applicable to stationary, constant load engines.

Sorry for the impatient diatribe, just wishing your engine well.

HTH,
chris

 

All true if it is a single action thermostat. If it is a dual action, as the 308 has with the lower disc that blocks the recirc port when the stat is wide open, then false. One must look at a side view of a 308 stat to understand.

 

So what's the normal operating temperature of a 308 at idle? At say 80F ambient? 195? Is there a way to externally tell if your car is missing a thermostat without removing any hoses? How long is too long for a 308 to warm up? Say the thermostat is stuck open? How would you know? It takes 15 minutes for the car to warm up to 160f in 80 degree temperature?
Jim

 

It is not a good idea to run w/o the thermostat. This is directly from the 308/Mondial8 WSM...

 

As you can see in the above diagram, when the thermostat is not present, there's no compulsion for the water to flow to the radiator at all. It would simply recirculate around in the block, tank and pump.

 

" So, unless you are an engineer or have really deep pockets, I suggest this is really a bad place to start guessing at smoke inspired theories only applicable to stationary, constant load engines."

HTH,
chris[/QUOTE]


WOW! The smoke is from collapsed rings in an overheated engine.
Dave

 

I can only give you my experience which is the bases for my decisions.

I normally run thermostats in my vehicles since they are also used in cold weather. However, I do not get upset if a vehicle does not have a thermostat unless it is used in cold weather.

Every vehicle that I have looked closely at uses the thermostat as just an on/off switch just like a light switch. At and above a certain temp it lets the radiator do its work. Below that temp, the radiator is cut off from the rest of the system. Generally that temp is about 190 F, but some people use a different temp thermostat for summer vs winter.

Manufacturers generally give a "recommended" temp thermostat, generally around 190. However, I have never seen one say "most efficient". The internal engine is much hotter than the coolant. Or is it for our confort?

In addition to Death Valley, when I had the engine replaced in Hawaii, the mechanic asked me if I wanted a thermostat installed. He recommended against installing one. I asked around and was surprised at the number of people running all types of vehicles without thermostats. So the engine was installed without a thermostat. I ran it for about two years without a thermostat with no ill effect. Later, when it was shipped back to the mainland and a thermostat added, the oil and gas consumation remained the same.

When I honeymooned in Tahati, I wanted to see some of the island. I rented a weird French car - ragtop of course. It had no heater or thermostat. It would seem that if a thermostat affected gas or oil consumation, then it would have had one.

Ferrari is mainly a racing company. I would be surprised if they spent the engineer resources and manufacturing time to design and make their own thermostats especially with so many good ones out there.

If someone goes to a good parts place that has a good parts person that is willing to spend the time, my guess is that a match can be found to the Ferrari thermostats. If someone does this, please post your results.

replacement

 

You apparently didn't read a number of the posts above. A 308 THERMOSTAT IS **NOT** AN ON-OFF SWITCH. Rather, it "diverts" coolant from one path to another. Leaving it out WILL PREVENT MOST OF THE COOLANT FROM REACHING THE RADIATOR. Look at the excerpt from an owners manual above.

 

From the shop manual (GT4)

Warning: It is not possible to eliminate the thermostatic valve as the circulation would mainly take place through the by-pass thus excluding the radiator.