Any Architects in the Bay Area with some time? | FerrariChat

Any Architects in the Bay Area with some time?

Discussion in 'Creative Arts' started by Bowers, Oct 5, 2007.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Bowers

    Bowers Karting

    Sep 27, 2007
    242
    San Jose
    Full Name:
    Bowers
    Hello all.

    I have noticed through some of the “what do you do” posts that there are some architects in here. I recently finished school and am working in an architecture firm. This is my first architectural office job. I was wondering if there was an f-chatter out there that was / is an architect that would be willing to talk with me about the field. I am NOT looking for a job. I have simply noticed the drastic gaps between what were are taught and what is practiced. The way in which the firm is being run, the organization in general, the AIA, NCARB, etcetera. I am hoping that other things I have noticed are simply the dysfunctional members of this firm and not the industry itself. I would appreciate the opportunity to talk with someone about industry, and then cars of course. I am available for or by phone, emails, coffee, at one of the SR meetings. I do have two jobs, paying off loans, so my availability is limited but I can make arrangements.

    Bowers
     
  2. youngarchitect

    Apr 2, 2007
    17
    As an architecture student i would love to see this discussion happen right here on the board. What are some of the "gaps" you've noticed?
     
  3. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2003
    10,046
    75225
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Yeh, I'm not in the Bay area but could still pass on some experience; not claiming any wisdom.
     
  4. Bowers

    Bowers Karting

    Sep 27, 2007
    242
    San Jose
    Full Name:
    Bowers
    I am passionate about it. I have been for years, it is what got me threw school. I am just very surprised by what is being taught and what I have been doing. It seems that all the ideology and design concepts you are forced to do while in school do absolutely nothing for you in the real world. I went to Cal Poly and simply feel as thought I spent top dollar to learn what to call things on a building. I honestly feel I got more from working construction while I was going to college then I did from the college experience itself.

    And now I am finding out all these hoops and other crap I have to jump through to accomplish my goal of being a licensed architect. These are all thing never mentioned while going to school. The San Francisco AIA, San Mateo AIA, Santa Clara AIA, and Oakland AIA have been no help at all because I haven’t paid my dues to be a member. In order to be a member I have to pay the NCARB. It just seems like there’s these organizations that are here to help but are simply scamming the system.

    Seriously I could have bought a copy of the CBC and IBC stuck with construction for 5 years and learned more. It’s all very disheartening. I still want to go back to school and get my Master’s but I really don’t think that will help. Not to mention that the some of the people in the firm have higher degrees than me and seem to know absolute nothing. That may simply be the difference in teaching institutions, maybe not.
     
  5. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2003
    10,046
    75225
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Bowers...I'll start by aking what degree you have now, and do you need a M.Arch to be able to take the exam where you are?
     
  6. Bowers

    Bowers Karting

    Sep 27, 2007
    242
    San Jose
    Full Name:
    Bowers
    I have the Bachelors, Cal Poly doesn’t have an AIA recognized Masters Program but Berkeley does. I haven’t been able to get into Berkeley, they keep turning me down… they have meet their quota for white guys. Here in California you don’t need to have a masters to be eligible for the ARE exams yet, I hear they are working on it. You still need to complete the IDP process, then the CIDP process. All of which is controlled, monitored, and operated by the NCARB.
     
  7. F SPIDER

    F SPIDER F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Jan 30, 2002
    2,873
    NYC, A'dam, W'stock
    Full Name:
    rijk rietveld
    I've also been surprised to see how there is a great disconnect between the education of and the practice in architecture. However, what it takes to run an architecture firm and STILL do good architecture cannot be taught in school. You have to look for a great Mentor. I've had two. Herman Hertzberger taught me how to think, Richard Meier taught me how to work.
     
  8. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2003
    10,046
    75225
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Well, you have the currently-required degree and a job. Battle 80% won. If you're not currently enrolled in the IDP, get enrolled, start putting together your internship requirements, and get eligible for the exam ASAP, before you have to spend two more years in school to do it. I'd guess that if CA does start requiring a masters, the state board will "grandfather-out" those already enrolled in the IDP when the change is made.

    I'm very surprised CA doesn't yet require a masters for the ARE, not surprised at the "quota" for grad-school admissions.

    Any advice I give you is from the perspective of my own experience and career...a masters may be essential now to move ahead in the profession; 30 years ago it wasn't. When I graduated with a bachelor's in '77 there was no IDP, and a bachelors degree was the standard in the real world. The "4+2" approach to architectural education was just beginning. I did a little grad work, and finished up the sponsored apprenticeship time needed for exam eligibility by summer '80. I think the IDP and the ARE exam were adopted nationwide around '82 or so...I do remember younger friends/acquaintances going through those.

    BTW, nice high-rise renderings on the other thread...what CAD program does your firm use?
     
  9. Bowers

    Bowers Karting

    Sep 27, 2007
    242
    San Jose
    Full Name:
    Bowers
    F-spider do you have any other advice other than trying to get into an arch firm that is run, and operated by a senior designer that is a world-renown multi-millionaire architect with a mile long intern list of people willing to work for free?


    Jsa330 thank you. You have been helpful. I am still trying to get my Masters but I need to get out of the financial rut I am in first before I get back into school debt. I have the NCARB IDP paperwork filled out and ready to go but it will be a couple more months before I have the extra funds to send out to AIA, NCARB, and the state board. Things use to be simpler; one of the senior architects here had no formal education before taking his state test back in 75 something. I know / new it would be a long process, but it seems like the number of hurdles I have to jump through increases as I get more and more “into the system”.

    Thank You. The office uses AutoCAD 2007, witch I convinced them to buy. We were still on 2000 when I got here. The renderings were done in Revit. I got certified in Revit, Inventor, and VIZ. I like Viz much more than Revit but the computers here can’t handle Viz and I don’t have enough swing to convince them to buy a graphic rendering computer then the 2000 dollar software for rendering. They are happy with the cartoonish rendering we do now. Viz is just way more photorealistic, and the video walk through I did in school were amazing.



    Youngarchitect, you learning anything from this? Every school, well UC’s and state colleges with recognized Arch programs, are supposed to have an IDP mentor / counselor available. Turns out mine did not. The IDP is nation wide. ASK YOUR DEPARTMENT HEAD. This is a program that will take years to complete.
     
  10. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2003
    10,046
    75225
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Bowers, more school debt is not a good idea. Sounds like your best course of action, as long as you can qualify for the exam without the masters, is to stay employed and get your finances under control, while simultaneously getting enrolled in the IDP and working toward the exam. A win-win situation. Having your license is a big deal, believe me.

    Lose the attitude. Jumping down Rijk's throat was uncalled for and disrespectful...you owe him an apology. We're both senior guys who have been way down the road, paid our dues, and been successful in our own right. Any advice you get from either of us is well-intentioned and based on our respective stores of experience. 30 years ago I would have jumped at the opportunity to work for a spell under Meier, for free or not.

    Your CAD certifications--excellent! I have ArchiCAD on my computer and still use it frequently, though I need to upgrade about five versions worth.
     
  11. Bowers

    Bowers Karting

    Sep 27, 2007
    242
    San Jose
    Full Name:
    Bowers
    Your right that was unnecessary. I am sorry. I will take any advice I can get.

    I don’t want to get the masters if I don’t have to. I don’t want to sound arrogant but after working like I have been already I really don’t think I will learn anything by getting a Masters. The original plan was to pay off the student loans I have now, work for a while getting my funds back up, by then either I should be eligible for the ARE’s or I could try and swing a 30 hour work week while going back to school for the Masters. I think is strange how we have to be apart of this IDP process and then NCARB lets us know when we are able to take the exams. There are portions I am fairly certain I could pass now. The CD’s and pre-designs defiantly, probably the general structures portion, the lateral forces after some studying, the rest I still need experience in.
     
  12. F SPIDER

    F SPIDER F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Jan 30, 2002
    2,873
    NYC, A'dam, W'stock
    Full Name:
    rijk rietveld
    Bowers,

    Working for most Star Architects will only be good for your resume, which means, that when you are older, you can a boring job in a big firm.

    What I meant is to get a real Mentor. One that has time for you, and is aware that one of the responsibilities of a good architect is to educate the next generation. Hertzberger is one of of that exceptional breed. Starting in 1974 I did work my tail of for him, but he always had time for me and taught me things I still use daily. He went so far that when I was 21 he gave me one of his own projects to do on my own, outside of his office. He was not trying to keep me for himself, he always was looking much further ahead.

    When I went in 1987 to Richard Meier, I had the chance to run his biggest project to date and I learned so much on the job. He was no Mentor in the same way, but it gave me a chance to compliment my experience. Having been exposed to the two extremes of the spectrum, I had a much better chance to define myself.
     
  13. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2003
    10,046
    75225
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Bowers:

    Your feelings about the masters are similar to mine...there are things about being an architect that can't be taught, and you either have them or you don't.

    The lack of a masters never hampered me, but it was a different time and I always worked for smaller firms; then from 1984 through 2004, solo with my own clients and projects and as a consultant/contract employee with a couple of other small offices.

    Guessing: No matter how good you are, a masters from a name university would still be a major asset at a large corporate firm or an exclusive design-oriented type firm.

    Rijk:

    I had a couple of mentors in my early days; one a prof who considered me a standout student and was well-connected to the Ivy League school network. He was eager to help me get into a masters program but unfortunately I was up against the same thing Bowers is...lack of $$$, in addition to my somewhat advanced age.

    The other was my boss at the firm where I really found my place in the profession. He dropped dead of a heart attack at age 56, 1 1/2 years after I went to work there, and I got a good amount of his projects loaded on me...thrown to the sharks, in other words. I came through a better man, but still feel for those clients who had to put up with my inexperience and pay for it.

    You are right, having a big name on the resume is an attntion-getter and door opener, even if it comes at the expense of a few months free or near-free work.
     
  14. Bowers

    Bowers Karting

    Sep 27, 2007
    242
    San Jose
    Full Name:
    Bowers
    I personally don’t think I need the Masters but I don’t what it to come around and bit me later down the road. I would think that as a client you don’t necessarily looked for a Masters over a Bachelor as long as both were licensed, but I don’t know I have never been on the client end of this scenario.

    I do know what you mean by the getting into a boring job at a large firm. Before accepting this job I was interviewing with another, significantly larger, firm. I decided to go with the smaller one because I figured I would get more hands on experience in different portions of the filed. I really didn’t want to get pigeon holed and become a guy who draws toilets for the next 20 years. The larger firm would not leave my military history alone; they kept asking questions I told them I didn’t want to answer. They just rubbed me the wrong way. They seemed very corporate and uptight. I wasn’t even working for them and got the impression I would just become anther name on the payroll list somewhere near the bottom.

    Is there an advantage for working for a larger firm, other than getting your name possibly associated with an industry noticeable project? I suppose they would have more people working for them and that makes for a higher possibility of having someone willing to take a newbie under their wing.

    My high school drafting teacher was the one that got me started on all this. I blew through his class and found myself bored. He gave me a book of floor plans and told me to mix and match parts till I made a few I liked. That’s when it all started for me. In college there was one instructor in particular that was passionate about the art. He was the kind that would go out of his way to help you and make time to explain things that need further explanations. Come to think of it he was the only one like that the rest had the mentality of thinning the herd. If you didn’t get to bad. He knew nothing about the current requirements so hasn’t been any help in this portion of the game.
     
  15. F SPIDER

    F SPIDER F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Jan 30, 2002
    2,873
    NYC, A'dam, W'stock
    Full Name:
    rijk rietveld
    Bowers,

    I don't know you, but if you are serious about what you're asking, I think that you need a different job. A firm that has higher standards and smaller, non repetitive projects (no interiors). On smaller jobs you get to do more different things and they go faster. Don't draw 3D, think 3D, sketch, measure, feel, understand how things are done.
     
  16. F SPIDER

    F SPIDER F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Jan 30, 2002
    2,873
    NYC, A'dam, W'stock
    Full Name:
    rijk rietveld
    Bowers,

    About the Masters. You need it if you want to teach and you need it if you want to get into a Star Architects firm, but you don't need it to become a good architect (and licenced).
     
  17. Bowers

    Bowers Karting

    Sep 27, 2007
    242
    San Jose
    Full Name:
    Bowers
    I am working at a small firm; there are only 8 of us, not including the receptionist. I was asking what the advantages of working for a larger firm are. My fear and why I turned down a larger firm was to not get pigeon holed into doing interiors for twenty years. I like where I am at but in a small firm I don’t see room of advancement. I think I would have to move to another firm if I wanted a higher position.
     
  18. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2003
    10,046
    75225
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Bowers:

    In regard to very large firms...don't know if there's a specific point for you here, but I'll recount it anyway.

    My cousin finished his M.Arch in '76, and in '78 went to work at what I think is now the second-largest U.S. architectural firm. He's been there ever since and made partner 12 years ago. At age 60, he still works the 60+ hour weeks that he always has, and travels constantly. He's a typical example of a driven guy who sacrificed everything for career advancement.

    I've never asked him how much he makes, but averaged out yearly I'm sure it's way more than I ever did (I had some very good years in there, as well as a few near-zeroed-out ones in the late 80's!). He told me that he's always hated his job, which is all managerial, and envied the grass-roots type of architectural practice that I was in.

    I have always thanked God not to be in his shoes. Had I wanted his work lifestyle and hours, I would have gone to law school and made 3X his best year every year.
     
  19. Bowers

    Bowers Karting

    Sep 27, 2007
    242
    San Jose
    Full Name:
    Bowers
    I apologize for not responding sooner, deadlines…

    I would like to say thank you. Your insight and advice into the field based on experience gathered over the last 30+ years has been very helpful.

    I am still seeking more information on the IDP program but I am getting the distinct impression I will have to pay for this information.
     
  20. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2003
    10,046
    75225
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Glad to be of help.

    Remember, the IDP and all that is a LOT cheaper than going back to school...rather than taking on more debt, you're getting paid to be working toward your license.

    Good luck and keep us posted.
     

Share This Page