any one here have decat/cats removed on the 458

anyone on here have the cat removed on there road car
what have you noticed?

 

would not do it imho, even if taking out the cats somewhat increases the high pitch
sound characteristic of the engine to an even higher degree..

however, the drawbacks are many: todays' cars are designed to run with the cats
and taking them off will most likely not increase power and might create
cel and other warnings.. plus smog tests would be a pain.. just my opinion

if u want to make the sound rawer and increase depth of and not spend too much
money and tinker with the cats get a capristo
valve bypass system and a bmc racing air filter, 100 octane wouldn't hurt either
if you can get it (more backfires and power imho).

Here are vids of my car with stock exhaust and capristo system (valves open) and bmc racing air filter and running 100 octane and a vid of a catless with novitec exhaust 458, you be the judge

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx9Iie7-avQ]Homeboys beautiful Ferrari screams at me - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWc2AdErGco]Ferrari 458 italia running 100 octane racing fuel - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeP6q6e12bc]Novitec Rosso Ferrari 458 Italia KILLER F1 Sound ! - YouTube[/ame]

 

100 octane fuel is just a waste of money...

 

Agreed. Unless you need a slower burn due to forced induction/higher compression to prevent detonation, 100 octane fuel does nothing for the car. Save your money.

 

the 458's engine is a high compression unit

 

are you familiar with the 458's high compression engine?

 

What is your point ?
The engine was developed for use of 95 octane fuel, as in many parts of the world as well as in Italy itself it is difficult or almost impossible to get fuel with 98 or more octane. Check your manual.
If you have to use low-quality fuel the motormanagement will prevent the engine from getting damaged by knock-sensors and adjust fuel-injection and ignition accordingly. On the other hand this does not mean, it will do the same if you run it on high-quality fuel. As no knock will be detected it will just run the standard mapping - and thus no extra power...

 

Give it up. A contingent convinces themselves that the car is faster with 100 than 93. I've asked to see back to back dyno results but no one will go to that effort.

 

No, I think the car feels more powerful (and sounds more aggressive) with 100 aki
than with 91 aki (us Southern Californians unfortunately do not have access to 93 aki fuel );
granted: filling up the car 100% with 100 aki might be a waste of money, but then again
who's counting with these machines! best

 

Sorry, I didn't want to hurt your 'feelings'
If you feel better using 100 octane - go ahead...

 

I remember there was a test from an auto-magazine here in Germany.
The power-increase by high octane fuels was within dyno tolerances, so zero...

 

95 ron = 91 US aki
98 ron = 93 US aki
105 ron = 100 US aki

Try to run her once on 98 ron (if you can get it where you live) and see what you think..
(You might be converted to the high octane fchat contingent lol )

 

No problem!

All at fchat have become very tolerant of my passion for
100 octane!

 

458 is mapped (in the EU, assume same in US?) for 95 RON. F12 is mapped for 98 RON. Use of fuel above the max mapped RON rating (assuming all other factors are the same such as additives, detergents etc) will have no effect for the engine as it maxes out the ignition advance for 95 RON. Whilst 98 or 100 have higher detonation thresholds, the 458 engine DME advances the ignition no further than with 95 RON. Page 31 of the EU manual and page 413 of the tech manual for 458.

 

keep the cats, unless you are prepared to re-do most of the software on the car to keep it running well. Even the challenge car has cats on it....

On the 100 octane front....first, kudos to 458Trofeo for his passion and for personalizing his car. Great to see, though I would not do much of what he did/does for our road car. I have a racing addiction, so maybe that takes the edge off on the road.

On the 100 octane front - the dyno comparison would be ideal. Another thing you can do is have the dealer (with the DEIS) monitor the ignition advance with pump 93 vs. 100.

We all know the 458 will retard the ignition with lower grade gas, the question is how far it will advance it? Since the car isn't "expecting" 100, it will probably not advance as far as it otherwise could to fully utilize the 100. Getting the actual advance data would tell that tale, at the cost of having a dealer plug the car in and reading the engine data. (we do it all the time in the race car. We find that temperature is the biggest variable in engine performance, along with fresh/clean coils and plugs)

I'm sure all of us that religiously try to fill with good Pump 93 (incl 10% ethanol - ugh) get a mediocre fuel quality every now and then. Filling with 100 probably only guarantees the engine will run at spec....not better than spec. I'm sure the overrun has a nice burble.

FWIW - if we could get non-ethanol, higher octane fuel around here, I'd get it, too. At least for the F-cars.

 

100 Octane gas overtime will destroy your cats Another benefit to running a Catbypass if you are planning on using 100 octane.

The post about these engines not gaining any power by removing the cats or putting a high flow set of cats on is simply false. I could train myself to run up a hill with a 50 lb weight on my back and be perfectly designed to do it, but if I take the weigh off I am going to get up the hill more efficiently and much quicker.

Now in some cases with certain cars by running a catbypass you can move the power band up higher and in a sense "lose" performance down low, however whatever is lost down low is equally made up for up top. Either way a catalytic converter is still the MOST restrictive part of your exhaust and removing or replacing them with a high flow set will create a gain in performance somewhere in the power band regardless.

Take a look at our dyno. Base run is a 458 with our sport headers, comparison is the same car with our headers but with the addition of our 200 Cell sportcats.
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Evan, first it appears that you don't necessarily advocate no catalytic converters at all. Second, as for 100 octane "destroying" catalytic converters, please explain and provide an independent and unbiased reference. My understanding of catalytic converters is that so long and they run near stoichiometric most of the time, they shed the excess hydrocarbons via oxidation off of the substrate without excessive heat or other ill effects. I have been informed that too rich, too much of the time causes too much heat in the catalysis of the HC that temporarily bind to the substrate (such as platinum). So if the engine calibration is correct then cats should survive.

Finally my understanding is that factory catalytic converters are warrantied by law for 7 years by federal law. Does Fabspeed match that warranty?

And while we are at it, are there any customer drag strip results showing trap speed improvement before and after with similar atmospheric conditions?

As you can see I am a skeptic and want objective, verifiable and sensible backup for the Fabspeed claims. And yes I am a PITA, but hopefully someone appreciates it and does not just consider me a jackwagon

 

Evan made a few broad statements I must clarify.

1. 100 octane UNLEADED fuel will not harm your catalytic converters as long as the engine & management system are functioning properly.

2. All Ferrari engines are designed to maximize high rpm cylinder filling, thus they have significant valve overlap (compared to other sports car engines of the respective era's) and a free flow exhaust helps increase cylinder filling. On all the V8 Ferrari's I have dyno tested (308, 328, 348, 355, 360, 430, 458, California) all pick up power from where I start the run (usually around 2400), until redline, when removing restriction from the exhaust.

kverges to answer your question about warranty, the answer is No, Fabspeed does not match the federally mandated 8 yr/80,000 warranty on emission equipment required for the OEM's, HOWEVER, we offer a best-in-aftermarket-industry 2 year warranty on our HJS Sport catalytic converters (as long as the car is not tracked).

Regarding your comment on trap speed improvements, we just invested in a Racelogic V-Box for this very use. I think a 458 (or any Ferrari) on a drag strip is a rare occurrence, but 60-130 times are useful in gauging what the increase in dyno-measured horsepower translates to out on the pavement.

 

If someone will volunteer their 458 and pay for the 100 octane ($9-$10 per gallon), I will dyno the car for free.

The 458 has a very advanced engine management system that tries to make as much ignition advance as the knock sensitivity calibration will allow. I think 100 octane may provide some power gains, but nothing like 20whp. I could be wrong though.

The last direct injection Ferrari V8 I dyno tested (2012 California) was pushing 30-31 degrees of advance on 93 octane with 12.5:1 compression. That is a lot for 12.5:1 and 93 octane, so I'm not sure how much more power would come from 100, but it would be very cool to find out.

 

Thanks, Chris. 458s are definitely not drag cars, but trap speed is a pretty solid indicator of power, all things being equal (like atmospheric conditions and wind), and it is fun to run a quarter mile a couple of times just to see what the car will do. I keep meaning to take my 12C out and see if it really will crack 130 and run 10s in launch mode. That is silly fast for a street car on 20" street rubber, if it will really do it.

 

I've seen some VERY impressive numbers come out of stock 12C's with a nicely prepped track! With a tune and some sticky rubber on a good track you could really dig into the low tens with some practice! Scary how fast and how much potential the 12C has.. has there been a modded 12C in the 9's?

I would love to see the numbers of a 458! Something I haven't done much research into and I doubt many people have taken them out to test it!

 

a lot

 

I have novitec test pipes and novitec exhaust and the car sounds amazing! Like a F1 car, but very loud!

 

I wouldn't want to drive a F1 car all the time... Plus you get even more problems if you want to run the car on the track, at least here in Europe... There are several tracks where they won't allow you to drive even with the stock-exhaust.

 

Haha I love it! Very aggressive sound!