Buy

Any real solution to brakes squealing?

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by tatoweb, Oct 26, 2015.

  1. tatoweb

    tatoweb Rookie

    Aug 22, 2012
    49
    I already searched for this issue, but didn't find any real solution.

    My 458 brakes make a squealing sound when used at low speeds. Does anybody found a solution for this?
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    7,891
    Six quick slowing events from 100 MPG to 30 MPH as fast as possible.
    Then drive for at least 20 minutes without touching the brake pedal.
     
  4. MuratC

    MuratC Formula Junior

    Jul 6, 2014
    539
    Istanbul, Turkey
    Not really... most high performance ceramic brakes will squeak
     
  5. Ski Bum

    Ski Bum Formula 3

    Jun 19, 2012
    1,082
    My brakes squeal, particularly when they get fairly warm. I find that a series of hard braking will temporarily remove the squealing, but the squealing always comes back (particularly for low speed stops).
     
  6. Jasone

    Jasone Formula 3
    Owner

    Nov 15, 2011
    1,204
    Tampa Florida
    Full Name:
    Jasone
    Mine too (Speciale). I've bedded the brakes and yet sometimes the squeal real bad. Some aggressive stops seems to help temporarily but it always comes back.

    On my track cars (with steel brakes) I would simply swap out the pads for street driving but I'm not aware of any solution for the ceramics.

    Hope I'm wrong and someone knows a trick I can learn.
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. geochin

    geochin Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 3, 2012
    306
    NJ
    Full Name:
    George
    I was told by Ferrari mechanic that the factory said brakes has be bedded. The procedure from Ferrari is below. The mechanic at the dealer stated they can't do this had to it on my own. I found it works after step but never completed all the steps and it came back

    Step 1
    Brake 16 times from 50 to 20 MPH LIGHT-MEDIUM pedal pressure
    Cycle time 10 seconds between brake applications
    Drive 2+ miles to cool brakes
    NOTE: cool down period is minimum - can be longer.


    Step 2
    Brake 16 times from 75 to 20 MPH MEDIUM pedal pressure
    Cycle time 15 seconds between brake applications
    Drive 2+ miles to cool brakes
    NOTE: cool down period is minimum - can be longer.


    Step 3
    Brake 10 times from 80 to 20 MPH HEAVY pedal pressure
    Cycle time 20 seconds between brake applications
    Drive 2.5+ miles to cool brakes
    NOTE: cool down period is minimum - can be longer.


    Step 4
    Brake 3 times from 60 to 0 MPH FULL ABS pedal pressure
    Cycle time 10 seconds between brake applications
    Drive 5+ miles to cool brakes
    NOTE: cool down period is minimum - can be longer.

    Inspect disks to ensure there is a good/consistent Coating of pad material on the disk surface.
     
  9. MVDESQ

    MVDESQ Formula 3

    Nov 25, 2010
    1,555
    Greenwich, CT
    Full Name:
    Matthew & Kristen V.
    My CCB on my 430 squeal at low speed when they get dusty. As soon as I merely rinse with water it fixes it for days some times. I'm thinking of carrying a little squirt bottle of water with me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    9,926
    Just make sure the water isn't contaminated with any thing like tire detail spray (silicone).
     
  11. rlips

    rlips Formula Junior

    Jul 29, 2011
    959
    New Jersey, USA
    Mine squeal. I just do a few hard stops to get heat in them and they are fine. Doesn't really bother me.
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. Townshend

    Townshend F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jul 20, 2005
    6,547
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Walter
    Bumping to see if anyone had luck with any solutions for low speed brake squeal on the 458. Virtually every time I brake it squeals.
     
  14. 720

    720 F1 Rookie

    Jul 14, 2003
    2,623
    So. Cal and No. Utah
    Full Name:
    Rick
    Squealing brakes would drive me crazy. Fortunately, the brakes on my Speciale don't squeal.

    I don't think it would cost too much, but I'd consider asking Ferrari to disassemble all of your brakes and take a look for anything obviously wrong. If your pads are worn then you might want to replace the pads. Then bed your brakes following the procedures outlined previously.

    It's possible that just the disassembly/reassembly process might solve the problem. Or replacing pads and bedding the brakes might solve the problem. It's worth a try. You don't want to live with squealing brakes.

    I'm sure there is more than one way to bed CCM brakes. I'm surprised that Ferrari doesn't say one word about "bedding CCM brakes" in the owner's manual. However, McLaren includes bedding procedures in their owner's manuals.

    The procedures described below are essentially derived from McLaren's owner's manuals.

    I followed these procedures on my 458 Speciale, and I'm happy with the results. Of course, you should discuss this with your Ferrari dealer to get their advise and/or recommendations.

    Instructions - Bedding CCM Brakes

    Step 1
    Brake 16 times from 50 to 20 MPH LIGHT-MEDIUM pedal pressure
    Cycle time 10 seconds between brake applications
    Drive 2+ miles to cool brakes
    NOTE: cool down period is minimum - can be longer.


    Step 2
    Brake 16 times from 75 to 20 MPH MEDIUM pedal pressure
    Cycle time 15 seconds between brake applications
    Drive 2+ miles to cool brakes
    NOTE: cool down period is minimum - can be longer.


    Step 3
    Brake 10 times from 80 to 20 MP HEAVY pedal pressure
    Cycle time 20 seconds between brake applications
    Drive 2.5+ miles to cool brakes
    NOTE: cool down period is minimum - can be longer.


    Step 4
    Brake 3 times from 60 to 0 MPH FULL ABS pedal pressure
    Cycle time 10 seconds between brake applications
    Drive 5+ miles to cool brakes
    NOTE: cool down period is minimum - can be longer.

    Inspect disks to ensure there is a good/consistent coating of pad material on the disk surface.

    NOTE
    Throughout the first three phases, the stops in question can be done with or without activating ABS, i.e threshold braking the car, so that a constant pressure is kept on the pad during the stop. This is to help build up the heat in the pad. The goal here is to bake off the top layer of bonding agent from the pad so that air pocket forming becomes impossible or highly unlikely. Basically what you're looking for is the pad to start fading badly during the bedding procedure. That generally happens in Step 3, when braking distances feel like they are increasing dramatically. Once this point has hit, the gasses are beginning to boil off. A few more stops after that point and the brakes will feel like they're grabbing before you even touch the pedal.

    Here are a few more points contributed by Entropy:
    1) If you cannot (literally) smell the pads, then you're not getting enough heat into them.
    2) As important as the pressure and heat is, the cooling process is equally important.
    3) ABS or not during the bedding process doesn't matter.
    4) Lightly "dragging" the brakes for a short while to create initial heat is ok; "dragging them" over a long period is likely to overheat or glaze them.”


    If you're interested, here's what a well-known brake materials manufacturer published on how brakes work:

    "...... brakes convert kinetic energy of a moving vehicle into heat. The simplest way for a brake system to absorb kinetic energy is to break chemical bonds in the rubbing surfaces of the brake pads and rotor. This is called "abrasive friction", because the pads and rotor act as an abrasive, pulling each other apart, wearing, and turning the pad into dust.

    A more sophisticated way to absorb kinetic energy is "cohesive friction" (or adhesive friction). ...

    ...In order to use cohesive friction, pads deposit a film of friction material on the surface of the rotor. As the rotor passes between the pads, the film and the pad surface heat up and become sticky. The pads and friction film bond to each other then break apart, absorbing energy. They bond and break apart continuously as the rotor passes between the pads.

    Cohesive friction relies on the surface properties of the friction material and transfer film, which change with temperature. ...

    ...Used under its design conditions, a cohesive friction material does not wear the rotor at all, as the rotor is protected by the friction film. The pads wear slowly, just enough to keep a supply of adhesive materials at the surface. ..."



     
  15. Townshend

    Townshend F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jul 20, 2005
    6,547
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Walter
    Dealer cleaned the brakes and bedded them in. Seemed to be OK for a couple days but still squeals more than I believe they should. Any recommendations on aftermarket pads that would work as well?
     
  16. 720

    720 F1 Rookie

    Jul 14, 2003
    2,623
    So. Cal and No. Utah
    Full Name:
    Rick
    Hard to believe the dealer did a proper bedding. It's a PITA to do it right IMHO. Find a quiet stretch of road (it's not easy depending on where you live) and do it yourself. That way you'll know your brakes were bedded. Then, if they still squeak, you'll know it's not because they were bedded correctly.

     
  17. dmark1

    dmark1 F1 World Champ
    BANNED Owner

    Feb 26, 2008
    11,394
    Americas Team Headquarters
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Can you bed brakes after you utilized them for 3500 miles before you try? I never did bed mine (dealer never told me nor was there anything in the book about it). Normal usage and yes mine squeak like hell low speed *sometimes* not always when hot. Would the procedure be the same if so?
     
  18. 720

    720 F1 Rookie

    Jul 14, 2003
    2,623
    So. Cal and No. Utah
    Full Name:
    Rick
    #15 720, Jul 3, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Mark. I'm don't think there's any downside to bedding your brakes if/when you think they may not be working as well they should. People that don't track their cars (I don't track my Ferraris) or use their brakes aggressively (but I do enjoy spirited drives...and hard braking) would probably benefit from bedding their brakes.

    I guess I'm lucky that my brakes don't squeak...hot or cold, they don't squeak. I wish I knew for sure that bedding the brakes would eliminate the squeaking, but I don't know. But, since bedding brakes is probably a good idea in any event, I would definitely try it. If my brakes squeaked and bedding didn't solve the problem, I'd ask Ferrari (or an independent Ferrari mechanic) to try taking the brakes apart, look for any obvious problems, clean everything up and reassemble...hoping that it's analogous to power cycling a computer :)

    I'm surprised that Ferrari doesn't include any information on bedding CCM brakes in the owner's manual. CCM brakes work okay without being bedded in, but they work much better if they are bedded in.

    BTW, McLaren includes information on bedding CCM brakes in their owner's manual. The bedding procedures that I posted earlier were based on the procedures that another fchat guy (RC33) put together based on the information in McLaren's owner's manual. McLaren's instructions aren't quite as user friendly as I'd like, but fortunately Roger (RC33) helped translate into instructions that are a bit easier to follow. Thank you Roger!
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  19. 'Trust'

    'Trust' Karting

    Jul 31, 2012
    214
    Really great info here.

    My Speciale is the only car I've owned where this is apparent. Has never happened on the Scud, either Aventador, Huracan, GT3's, etc., only the Spec.

    Mine only started squealing after I tracked it, never did on the road prior. I've bedded them once which short lived success, will be doing it again soon. If no luck, I'll let the dealer sort it out.
     
  20. 720

    720 F1 Rookie

    Jul 14, 2003
    2,623
    So. Cal and No. Utah
    Full Name:
    Rick
    The fact that not all CCM brakes squeak is encouraging. Please let us know how things turn out...especially if your dealer eliminates the squeaking! Fingers crossed :)

     
  21. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    53,167
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    I bet CCM brakes are entirely different thing for squeals, but regular brakes the squeal comes from the backing and not the pad to rotor contact. You can put some anti-squeal grease on the backing plates.
     
  22. boobernackle

    boobernackle Formula Junior

    May 28, 2016
    916
    Interesting as I have somewhat of an opposite issue.... I hear noise when I don't apply the brakes, and hear a similar noise on many youtubers that have posted reviews during their driving scenes.

    When I apply the brakes, the noise goes away... I had a California T with ceramic brakes and never experienced any noise whatsoever.
     
  23. Stockmarketman

    Apr 23, 2011
    23
    Calgary, Alberta
    My solution works as I just hose down the whole rotors and brakes. The squealing does come back however and you simply spray it down. I've tried the hard braking method and it's a waste of time as the noise comes back sooner.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  24. 'Trust'

    'Trust' Karting

    Jul 31, 2012
    214
    That was my first attempted fix, just assumed the piston was causing a bit of vibration on the back of the pad. No such luck. Mine is a very different type of squeal, it can sound like a muted train horn at times, and it's only under mid/light pressure.

    I've considered blasphemy and lightly sanding the rotors to disturb any glaze there might be. May give that a shot when I'm feeling extra dangerous lol.
     
  25. Nel1

    Nel1 Karting

    Jul 11, 2012
    157
    I have seen a dealer getting rid of the squeak (at least temporarily) by cleaning the surfaces (pad and rotor) and rotating the pads (left to right and right to left).

    One thing that I do to reduce / temporarily eliminate the squeaks is to spay the rotors and pads with water when I wash the car and when I done washing make a few stops driving in reverse to help dry the system and "change the pattern". It seems that helps minimize the issue.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  26. obbob

    obbob Formula Junior

    Aug 14, 2017
    770
    This is only one potential cause for squealing, but remember to be careful with what cleaning products you use on your carbon ceramic rotors.

    Generally, only water and car/wheel soap that does not have waxes or sealants in it should be used. Avoid using those wheel cleaners that turn purple on your wheels - those are fine for steels but should not be used on carbon ceramics!
     
  27. micah coley

    micah coley Rookie

    Jun 3, 2019
    15
    Full Name:
    micah coley
    I show you exactly how we fixed the notorious squeal when I was a tech at Lamborghini Beverly Hills, and what i continue to do at my shop in Beverly Hills. You can do it yourself easily with an empty stretch of highway. I also explain why this happens and the unspoken danger low heat cycles cause on the rotors. Surprise! they aren't lifetime rotors!!!

     
  28. FerrariCognoscenti

    FerrariCognoscenti Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2021
    651
    I’ve done this before. The squeal goes away for a day or two, and then comes back.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

Share This Page